GT350 vs Supra / M2 Comp / 718 Cayman Review -- C&D Article Oct 2019

[NDALLAS40]

Read the online version @ https://www.caranddriver.com/review...d-mustang-shelby-gt350-vs-porsche-718-cayman/




Hard to believe our GT350's are still relevant after 4 plus years. I've had my '16 Track Pack for just under 4 years. I'm able to track it locally only 3 to 4 times a year. I've learned the car and the track good enough to hang with the A group fairly consistently, sometimes even dominating. However, the track owner has 2 2016 Cayman S's that never get passed. Granted, the owner and a few of his instructors have gobs of experience and can drive the course blindfolded, but those 2 Caymans can embarass your GT350R's, ZO6's, ZL1's. They usually just run them for demonstration for novices and spectators, but if they run a full 20 minute session with a group, you won't see them after a couple of laps. This is on a 2.5 mile course with 11 turns. (16 apexes)

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[200MPHCOBRA]

12.5 at 117 is seriously under performing, and the track car excuse is still an excuse. It should be in the high 11"s about 121-123 with no drop off in track manners with that P to W......especially if the block and head changes for the better are true.....5 years is long enough and the price paid for these demands no excuses.

 

[Shift]

12.5 at 117 is seriously under performing, and the track car excuse is still an excuse. It should be in the high 11"s about 121-123 with no drop off in track manners with that P to W......especially if the block and head changes for the better are true.....5 years is long enough and the price paid for these demands no excuses.

Who's complaining? Anyone who cared or didnt get the purpose of the car has gotten rid of it. The rest of us understand that it wasn't the fastest car even when it was released, and it never will be. We all still enjoy our cars immensely and at the end of the day that's all that matters. Not numbers.

 

[JT1]

It wasn't that bad over on the forums. I did get a chuckle out of one of the comments that said the GT350 was a boat.


GT350 is more than the sum of it's parts. 90% of the performance, but the GT350 is actually the one that pulls people in who own Porsches, exotics, and other sports cars and for good reason. It delivers a unique experience that you cannot even buy anywhere else today(Naturally aspirated, flat-plane crank engine, RWD, manual). Hell, I never even cared about the Mustang until the GT350 came out. Frankly, I still don't care for regular Mustangs. It's clear you're a numbers guy, one who worries about stats more than the experience, and that's ok, there's a car out there for everybody. In my case, I need a car that elicits an aural and visceral experience, and not just of speed.

I think the GT Mustang would have placed near the bottom if not last. Hell, it wouldn't even be on my radar if I was shopping for a new car.

if linking to other forums isn't verboten, can you post the link? I love reading other brands whining.

 

[Bossing]

Who's complaining? Anyone who cared or didnt get the purpose of the car has gotten rid of it. The rest of us understand that it wasn't the fastest car even when it was released, and it never will be. We all still enjoy our cars immensely and at the end of the day that's all that matters. Not numbers.

Amen to that. Personally, I’ved gone thru a Z06, Viper ACRE, GT4, 991.2 Carrera, FocusRS, and a track pack GT350...... and years later I still absolutely and highly enjoy driving my 2017 R.

It’s not the fastest nor quickest nor lightest nor has the best amenities but it’s arguably the most fun and one of the best naturally aspirated bang for the buck of the late model high performance cars. No issues neither. I think it’s a near perfect match to complement or maybe even replace a P car. The sum of all the components it has along with the high strung singing FPC Voodoo is still priceless. And nope, no GT500 for me.... quite happy with the all motor R.

 

[oldbmwfan]

It's maybe all been said, but I noticed a few comments in this thread.

BMWs of today ARE numb. I'm an owner of 15+ BMWs over the years, with models from 1968 through 2009 and both M and non-M models in the mix, as well as some seat time in 2014-2016 models. I totally agree with the E82 135i owner above; that was the last BMW that felt like a BMW (and I have one of those, too). They have totally failed to figure out EPAS. Sadly, as a long-time fan of the marque, there's not a single BMW I would buy today. I'd take an M2 or an M3, but I wouldn't choose it over competitors' cars.

Also agree with the folks who said the GT350 is more than the sum of its parts, and has a "specialness" that speaks to buyers of other cars. I'm one of those guys who came to Ford through this car (and the Fiesta ST, which is a similarly synergistic piece of kit that feels so much more than the parts list would suggest). Steering feel, suspension tuning, and a sense of "liveliness" make a car into a fun car. Ford Performance has the recipe going well right now.

Also agree that the Cayman, sorry 718, needs more motor. If I could get into a GT4 for anywhere close to GT350R money, I'd consider a swap. As it is, the R is still a thrill and I don't find I need more.

 

[TDC]

Every time I get back from a track event I realize how little difference 1/4 mile acceleration relates to speed on the straight and overall driving enjoyment. A 911 GT3 and Camaro ZL1 1LE absolutely destroy the GT350 1/4 mile time/trap speed but they don’t pull more than a car length or two at best on a short straight (1/2 mile or less) and even on the back straight at Watkins Glen a car like the GT3RS’s were only pulling about 3-4 car lengths on me (for reference I’m topping out at 150 max on the back straight).

The two cars that seem to pull in relation to their 1/4 trap speed are Viper’s and Z06 vette’s.

 

[oldbmwfan]

That is right ^^^. The GT3s pull coming out of the corners because they are lighter weight, but once you're at speed it's not power/weight that matters so much as power/drag. 1/4-mile and 0-60 accel times are pretty much all power/weight and gearing.

When I get a good corner exit, I don't find that many cars can walk away down a straight. Tuned GT-Rs can, but anything putting down 700+ HP is just another league of pull above 100 mph.

 

[BostonDMD]

TDC and oldbmwfan,
Out of curiosity, what run group are you guys in?
Beginner, intermediate, advanced or instructors?

 

[BostonDMD]

Wouldn't have helped with the hose that popped off directly from the water pump, where there is no clamp! Engine heats up, hose pops off, engine cools off, hose can fit tightly in. Sorry, but that kind of defect has no place in a brand new high performance car!

Not very comforting news for someone who is thinking about this car for track use......

 

[TDC]

TDC and oldbmwfan,
Out of curiosity, what run group are you guys in?
Beginner, intermediate, advanced or instructors?

Depending on organization it is either Intermediate or Advanced.

I run with NASA, Chin, Hooked On Driving, PCA, MOE, AZP

 

[BostonDMD]

Depending on organization it is either Intermediate or Advanced.

I run with NASA, Chin, Hooked On Driving, PCA, MOE, AZP

Cool, I instruct with most of them. Have you had any mechanical issues at all? I’m undecided between a R and a GT4 for track duties. Obviously reliability is a big factor, The rest it’s all about the driver .

 

[TDC]

I have a 2016 Tech pack which didn’t come with tranny cooler (now they all do) so I did have limp mode in 2016 at Thunderbolt so in went a tranny cooler. No issues since due to running on the track.

I did experience two non track related issues:
1) weeping coolant from the radiator which was replaced under warranty in 2017
2) trans tailshaft sensor was not torqued properly from the factory. There was a TSB for it and repaired under warranty

Everything else has been great although I run with some other GT350 guys who have had some some issues that ranged from electrical faults all the way to one individual needing an engine replacement under warranty.

 

[oldbmwfan]

TDC and oldbmwfan,
Out of curiosity, what run group are you guys in?
Beginner, intermediate, advanced or instructors?

Advanced, with a small amount of W2W experience as well (completed BMW CR competition school and have run several endurance events).

 

[oldbmwfan]

Cool, I instruct with most of them. Have you had any mechanical issues at all? I’m undecided between a R and a GT4 for track duties. Obviously reliability is a big factor, The rest it’s all about the driver .

Only an issue with 1 CF wheel that is clearly a fluke manufacturing defect. Currently trying to get Ford to warranty it. The car has been extremely solid mechanically otherwise, 7400 miles over 3 years with 7-8 track days. It has no cage and harnesses, so I am not driving it quite as hard as I would my E36 track car that is fully set up. For reference, when I had a pro driver do a few laps in it, he was2-3 seconds quicker at Grattan Raceway. In my E36 I've been more like 1-1.5 sec. off the pace of a pro level coach at longer tracks (like Mid Ohio). So I'd say ~1.5 seconds is capability and the rest is my safety margin for a relatively expensive car with no additional safety gear.

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