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15 Gen 4 Whipple PBD Cal...What will it make?

markmurfie

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You would do the test dry, to start with. The psi should be near 15 x cr. If any cylinders come up low, you put a small amount of oil in and check again. If the numbers come up is a ring issue for taking apart the bottom end. If they don't it's a head gasket/valve issue your taking the top end apart.

That's what I mean by wet and dry test. Wet increases cr, so psi would get higher during the test.

The v config kinda throws this off, just like out didn't work at all in a boxer engine.
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ahl395

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Glad to see compression test came out good.
 

lxh89

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What's important to remember about positive displacement superchargers is that they move a fixed volume of air. The pulley ratio determines this. The gains one will get from opening the intake, opening the exhaust, etc, all boils down to removing parasitic losses that "steal" power produced by the supercharger. You can only make it so efficient before the pulley ratio becomes the primary power limiter. This looks like an example where you've maximized the blower efficiency; therefore, any other things you do to minimize parasitic losses is shaving fractions of a percent.

My advise, pulley down if you want more power. You'll find as you turn the blower more, those tiny improvements to efficiency start to pay off more and the blower can be turned harder producing more power with less heat/pump loss.
 

Burkey

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The thing that stands out to me is that you’re making 700whp by the time you hit 6700.
Torque is falling off quite rapidly (which doesn’t seem to line up with other charts I’ve seen)and you’re netting something like an extra 5% power for all the work of the next 1300rpm.
To my eyes, that’s entirely consistent with a system that has either a restriction in the exhaust or the intake. In your case, I’m going to guess that the 132mm TB isn’t the limiting factor here.
They flow something like 2200cfm right?
On the flip side of that, I’d fully expect the 2.25” restrictor in the exhaust to be making things difficult.
Plenty of exhaust size calculators will predict that you actually need a system slightly over 3” for what you’re trying to do.
Could be wrong, but damn I’d be ditching that resonator quick-smart, if only for a test.
 
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Roh92cp

Roh92cp

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Thanks for turning me on to data zap, makes it so much easier. Never see that lean spot before, strange because meth comes in at 6 psi and at that point in the log it goes rich and then at 10 psi 4K rpm it goes lean for a bit which is weird. I'd like to know what's going on there.
Yeah race fuel run without meth would have been a good thing to try for sure and is on the table for the next time. Thanks again for your thoughts on this.
The thing that stands out to me is that you’re making 700whp by the time you hit 6700.
Torque is falling off quite rapidly (which doesn’t seem to line up with other charts I’ve seen)and you’re netting something like an extra 5% power for all the work of the next 1300rpm.
To my eyes, that’s entirely consistent with a system that has either a restriction in the exhaust or the intake. In your case, I’m going to guess that the 132mm TB isn’t the limiting factor here.
They flow something like 2200cfm right?
On the flip side of that, I’d fully expect the 2.25” restrictor in the exhaust to be making things difficult.
Plenty of exhaust size calculators will predict that you actually need a system slightly over 3” for what you’re trying to do.
Could be wrong, but damn I’d be ditching that resonator quick-smart, if only for a test.
I've already ordered straight through 3" MBRP resonators and will be making it a complete 3" system soon. I've never liked that dam 2.25" neck down, but have 2 friends in Cali that have basically the same setup as me except Gen 3 whipple, but pulley, exhaust, 22 timing, but they run E85 and make 790 wheel. I think it will make maybe a small difference, but it still needs to be done.

My thoughts are meth maybe killing the power so I'm going back to a smaller shot as well. Next dyno will have smaller meth nozzle, 3" exhaust and I'm pulling the lid on my airbox during the dyno and see what it gets. Next run will be 10 gallons of 93 with full can of BOOSTane and no meth.
 

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Burkey

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I've already ordered straight through 3" MBRP resonators and will be making it a complete 3" system soon. I've never liked that dam 2.25" neck down, but have 2 friends in Cali that have basically the same setup as me except Gen 3 whipple, but pulley, exhaust, 22 timing, but they run E85 and make 790 wheel. I think it will make maybe a small difference, but it still needs to be done.

My thoughts are meth maybe killing the power so I'm going back to a smaller shot as well. Next dyno will have smaller meth nozzle, 3" exhaust and I'm pulling the lid on my airbox during the dyno and see what it gets. Next run will be 10 gallons of 93 with full can of BOOSTane and no meth.
Good stuff.
It’d be great to see the results from those changes on an individual basis if time on the dyno permits.
 

jrsimon27

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The meat and potatoes are here. This is a comparison showing how power Dyno results have basically been unchanged on the same dyno with very similar weather within 5 degrees F. The descriptions below are what the car had on it when it was Dyno'd, and what file or color line they are on the graph comparison.

File 3 GREEN on graph
Sept 2017 Whipple cal Gen 2.5
stock headers and cats
3.5" pulley
93 octane gas
Meth injection small shot
7800 rpm pull
18 total timing
725 wheel corrected
A/F 11.8

File 4 BLUE on graph
May 2019 Whipple Gen 4
Modified Whipple cal with HP tuners cam timing for power
Kooks 1 7/8 long tubes No cats
3.5" pulley
93 octane with 10 oz boostane
Meth injection
7800 rpm pull
20 timing advance
728 wheels corrected
A/F 11.8

File 6 RED on graph
June 2019 same as above except
PBD Rob cal
8100 rpm pull
22 advance timing
733 wheel corrected
A/F 11.8 FosterSCMods
IMG_0151.JPG


the zip file is the last dyno RED one on the graph. Zmap is the boost and Zuser2 is the IAT2 data on the log.
You neef to lower the pulley size for more boost.
 
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Roh92cp

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jrsimon27

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:like:I wish it was that easy.
Here is the deal i have a freind with a 2016 GT auto whipple made on the stock whipple tune 696whp then he added catted headers and pbd tune and dynoed 714whp. He wanted more called pbd and they told him to go with a lower pulley 3.375 was using before the 3.5 pulley. On the 3.375 pulley he had to use vp109 made 750whp plus on an auto.
 

markmurfie

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Headers/removed cats, 4* more timing, a bit higher RPM pull, and a new gen more efficient blower.


Less than 10whp gain.

...140$ pulley would have gotten you more power. SMH.
 

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Roh92cp

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Here is the deal i have a freind with a 2016 GT auto whipple made on the stock whipple tune 696whp then he added catted headers and pbd tune and dynoed 714whp. He wanted more called pbd and they told him to go with a lower pulley 3.375 was using before the 3.5 pulley. On the 3.375 pulley he had to use vp109 made 750whp plus on an auto.
I’m not going to run race fuel to make power on this car daily, it’s a street car. However it is worth a test run with it and no meth to see what happens to rule out meth as the power robbing culprit. As far as pullying down for power, it’s not a good idea with the amount of timing in this calibration. Running a 3.375” pulley would require me to run race fuel all the time, no E85 here, or I would have to lower timing significantly to run that pulley. Power through timing and boost is a balance and PBD has done this many times and knows what combinations of timing and boost make power. This combination I’m running is proven and makes 790-800 wheel all day long on many many other setups. Something is missing or off in my combo and throwing more boost at it isn’t advisable.
 

Whitedevil95

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Subscribing for updates.
 
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Roh92cp

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I've worked on some possible weak links, not sure they were power robing, but they were needed none the less. Looking to hit the Dyno again in August with these changes. Also went down from 20 GPH meth nozzle to 7 GPH and still have no knock and full timing 22 with 93 and 10 oz boostane in each tank.

Exhaust is now complete 3" no more 2 1/4" chock down to the Borla resonator. I know have complete 3" resonators and I cut out and welded in 3" extension on the mid pipes coming off the from the headers.

FORE L2 fuel system installed with dual pumps and 1050 ID injectors. This was overkill for sure, but I was running out of fuel at 7800 rpm with BAP and 72's.
58282965289__80B6A3D6-78DD-4BB4-921B-93F17B5E378A.JPG
sGinWwJWSTGaUkx5BGHxzg.jpg
4qwb27hUR3mOV5WaxVd5jA.jpg
fullsizeoutput_ca7.jpeg
fullsizeoutput_cbd.jpeg
 

lx347cd

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I've worked on some possible weak links, not sure they were power robing, but they were needed none the less. Looking to hit the Dyno again in August with these changes. Also went down from 20 GPH meth nozzle to 7 GPH and still have no knock and full timing 22 with 93 and 10 oz boostane in each tank.

Exhaust is now complete 3" no more 2 1/4" chock down to the Borla resonator. I know have complete 3" resonators and I cut out and welded in 3" extension on the mid pipes coming off the from the headers.

FORE L2 fuel system installed with dual pumps and 1050 ID injectors. This was overkill for sure, but I was running out of fuel at 7800 rpm with BAP and 72's.
58282965289__80B6A3D6-78DD-4BB4-921B-93F17B5E378A.JPG
sGinWwJWSTGaUkx5BGHxzg.jpg
4qwb27hUR3mOV5WaxVd5jA.jpg
fullsizeoutput_ca7.jpeg
fullsizeoutput_cbd.jpeg
Good deal - keep us updated on the dyno. How does it feel on the street? Do you really need to run the meth with the boostane with the 3.5 pulley?
 
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Roh92cp

Roh92cp

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Good deal - keep us updated on the dyno. How does it feel on the street? Do you really need to run the meth with the boostane with the 3.5 pulley?
The car pulls like crazy especially on the hit. I could run more boostane I'm sure and take out the meth, but I'm not giving up on meth, but I will also test with more Boostane and no meth on the dyno to see if it makes power over meth and 10oz boostane.
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