Sponsored

Next gen Camaro supposedly being canceled (all threads merged)

martinjlm

Retired from GM
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Threads
15
Messages
1,568
Reaction score
2,973
Location
Detroit
Vehicle(s)
2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
What I think is actually going on here is very similar to Ford announcing that Mustang would continue on S550 for a couple more years rather than going to an S650. And word in the industry is that there will likely never be an “S650”. But rather Ford is re-scheming how to continue Mustang in a CAFE world. GM is continuing Camaro on Alpha for a couple years rather than move it to Alpha2 while they figure out what it should / will / will not be beyond 2023. Similar paths. The difference is, Ford took control of its message and said “here’s what we’re doing”. GM continues to play the “not at liberty to discuss future products” card.

....
Have they though? Ford haven't announced anything Mustang-specific. The on/off rumors of whether S650 is coming or not, are just that. Even Automobile mag just quote "an insider". The "Mach-E" is slightly different....they've certainly shown part of their hand there, but I don't class that as a Mustang (I'm still hoping for them NOT to put a pony on it). The only thing Ford have officially announced for Mustang is the hybrid......which they initially said was coming for 2020 (no indication whether that was model or calendar year).

As for CAFE....thanks for that, I was not aware that was how its calculated. I guess, if the rumor of Mustang getting bigger is true, that would help offset CAFE to a small degree. I hope it stays at its current size though......it's a pretty big car as it is, especially as the rear seats are just about usable for small adults/teenagers.

:)
I could have worded that better. When I say Ford has controlled their message, I’m really only referring to the decision to extend S550. The idea of whether S650 ever arrives is “industry shop talk” amongst forecasters. Seriously deep nerd-speak. By being up front about next ‘Stang coming off S550 with a new tophat (more nerd-speak), Ford has avoided the reverberations of someone in the supply community going “my S650 parts supply contract just got delayed / cancelled” turning into an MC&T “sky is falling” discussion.
Sponsored

 

Twin Turbo

Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Threads
479
Messages
9,835
Reaction score
7,402
Location
England
First Name
Paul
Vehicle(s)
Mustang '05 GT
Ah, OK, thank you!

For me though....I'll get excited once I start to see some properly camo'd S550 mules as that'll give a better indication of what's coming and when for Mustang. I'd expect the car to receive another facelift shortly before the hybrid version is launched (or launch the hybrid along with the next facelift. Again, Automobile seem to think it will be significant "the S550 Mustang will receive a major mid-cycle facelift to update its current D2C platform and reskin it with new sheetmetal from nose to tail, which will require some underbody work".

Bring on those spyshots!
 

DekiDoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Threads
20
Messages
618
Reaction score
579
Location
Glendale, AZ
Vehicle(s)
2018 GT PP1
Does everything better but possibly getting the axe :giggle:
Turns out ergonomics are a huge deal. One of the reasons i didn't get one wad because I couldn't fit our stroller through the trunk opening, but it fit in the mustang. Other than that, the Camaro is lighter, has better brakes, handles better, is better equipped for prolonged track use, has a much more advanced electronic limited slip... you see my point. They accelerate about the same, but Chevy took the Camaro in a much more performance oriented direction than Ford did with the Mustang, you can't deny that. But if the car is not comfortable for someone to drive they won't buy it. I don't know why GM would ax it though, they've sold 600,000 since the 5th gen, and even if they're only making $2,000 per car, which we know they're making more, that's still 1.2 billion they made profit. If they kill it, all those customers will jump ship to other brands with a very small percentage buying a Corvette.
 

Sponsored

bluebeastsrt

Oh boy
Joined
May 10, 2015
Threads
79
Messages
7,552
Reaction score
7,026
Location
New Jersey
First Name
BigD
Vehicle(s)
Ruby red 2019 GT Premium.
Why would want to cancel this

48092787682_3f3c74c43e_b-jpg.jpg
What all muscle cars will look like in 10 years. When they are based off of an SUV frame.:curse::angry:
 

Tseg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
141
Reaction score
139
Location
Detroit
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT Premium Convertible
What all muscle cars will look like in 10 years. When they are based off of an SUV frame.:curse::angry:
I wonder what happens to the 0-60 times as they launch with the engines off?
 

martinjlm

Retired from GM
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Threads
15
Messages
1,568
Reaction score
2,973
Location
Detroit
Vehicle(s)
2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
They might be short base cars, but they are WIDE. My mazda6 is not a small car, and the Mustang still tracks 3 inches wider. 75.4 inches rivals many crossovers and small SUVs.
Still doesn’t cut it. They are still very small footprint compared to Edge, Explorer, et cetera. Plus trucks and utilities get lower targets just by benefit of being a truck or utility. If Mustang and Edge had exactly the same footprint area, Mustang would still have the more difficult target simply because it is in the Car CAFE fleet while Edge is in the Truck CAFE fleet. Add to that the performance engines and you have some real CAFE compliance issues. And now it is the ONLY Ford car in the Car CAFE fleet, so it either has to meet the Car CAFE target calculated for Ford as a company, or Lincoln has to add a fuel efficient car to offset it. Or Ford has to push a lot of electrification onto it.
 

jacknifetoaswan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
Threads
49
Messages
1,425
Reaction score
760
Location
Charleston, SC
Vehicle(s)
2016 Race Red Mustang GT Premium Performance Pack
Still doesn’t cut it. They are still very small footprint compared to Edge, Explorer, et cetera. Plus trucks and utilities get lower targets just by benefit of being a truck or utility. If Mustang and Edge had exactly the same footprint area, Mustang would still have the more difficult target simply because it is in the Car CAFE fleet while Edge is in the Truck CAFE fleet. Add to that the performance engines and you have some real CAFE compliance issues. And now it is the ONLY Ford car in the Car CAFE fleet, so it either has to meet the Car CAFE target calculated for Ford as a company, or Lincoln has to add a fuel efficient car to offset it. Or Ford has to push a lot of electrification onto it.
Is it really that much smaller? The Mustang has a 107.1" wheelbase with 75.4" width, while Edge is 112.2" wheelbase with 75.9" width. Area-wise, that's 8075.34 sq. in. vice 8515.98 sq. in. Obviously, I don't know what the classification ranges are, but it doesn't seem like there's that much difference. Heck, even the Explorer is 112.6" wheelbase with 78.9" width, for an area of 8884.14 sq. in.

JR
 

Sponsored

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,443
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
Inferior in ergonomics only, everything else it does much better than the mustang. If Camaro didn't come back in 2010, Ford would have never invested the money to make it better.
MUCH? Really?

The cars are nearly identical except for poor ergonomics in the Camaro. The performance differences are so minor they are pretty much unnoticeable. If the Camaro were MUCH better than the Mustang, Camaros would be selling better. I might have a new Camaro right now if they were MUCH better than the Mustang.

I'm really willing to give up something in ergonomics for a car that's more fun to drive. But the reality is Camaro and Mustang are very similar when it comes to being fun to drive.
 

EcoVert

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2016
Threads
94
Messages
3,454
Reaction score
1,874
Location
W.VA
Vehicle(s)
2015 Ecoboost convertible
Vehicle Showcase
4

martinjlm

Retired from GM
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Threads
15
Messages
1,568
Reaction score
2,973
Location
Detroit
Vehicle(s)
2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
Is it really that much smaller? The Mustang has a 107.1" wheelbase with 75.4" width, while Edge is 112.2" wheelbase with 75.9" width. Area-wise, that's 8075.34 sq. in. vice 8515.98 sq. in. Obviously, I don't know what the classification ranges are, but it doesn't seem like there's that much difference. Heck, even the Explorer is 112.6" wheelbase with 78.9" width, for an area of 8884.14 sq. in.

JR
They’re in different pools. Truck standards are easier to meet than car standards, so even if they were exactly the same size, Mustang standard would be harder to meet. Add on top of that 480 - 760 hp engines vs 2.0T, 2.3T, and 2.7T engines and you have a much tougher time meeting the Car standard than Edge will have Meeting the Truck standard. This is a primary reason Ford ditched Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, and GM ditched Cruze. Standards are too hard to meet without adding a ton of tech that you can’t get the customer to pay for.
 

Interceptor

Daily Driver
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Threads
69
Messages
1,627
Reaction score
1,213
Location
Low country South Carolina
Vehicle(s)
2019 California Special A10
Come on, don't you all pay attention!
Remember GM is merging with Ford early next decade, so they don't need two poney cars. Since they plan on putting the Ford engine in the new mid-engine Corvette, surely there are plans to combine Camaro and Mustang into one fine vehicle. That is why you are not seeing any test mules.
 

zrx4me

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Threads
10
Messages
102
Reaction score
50
Location
Daytona USA
First Name
randy
Vehicle(s)
2021 GT
I’ve seen this from several sources now. What a shame. They focused too much on performance for the 6th gen and it bit them in the ass. Also most people can’t tell the difference between a 5th and 6th gen.

Even though we are Mustang fans, if you are happy about this news, you are DUMB and don’t understand competition.
you are right.ford did not get off its ass and put some HP into mustangs until chevy started kicking its ass with the mid 90's LT-1. Competition is good.
Sponsored

 
 




Top