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jake_zx2

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ALL automakers buy, test, disassemble, and BENCHMARK competitor vehicles and powertrains. That was part of my job my last 10 years at GM. So, using that example...on the way to developing C8, the Corvette team purchased, drove, and disassembled a Ferrari 458, a McLaren 570s, several versions of 911, an Acura NSX, and probably a couple cars that I'm forgetting. So which one is the C8 "copying"?


Go back and reread where this started, and you'll see that the point you just made is the same point that he is making

This started off as someone discounting the C8, saying that it's just a copy of a Ferrari. He countered by saying that all manufacturers draw inspiration from other great vehicles, just as Ford did with the Voodoo
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martinjlm

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Go back and reread where this started, and you'll see that the point you just made is the same point that he is making

This started off as someone discounting the C8, saying that it's just a copy of a Ferrari. He countered by saying that all manufacturers draw inspiration from other great vehicles, just as Ford did with the Voodoo
I got that and agreed with most of it. The only difference I was trying to point out is that by no means is Voodoo derived from Ferrari’s 458 engine. It was benchmarked, no doubt, but was not a real factor in determining what the Voodoo would be. Since Ford had already decided they were going FPC, it only made sense that they would acquire the best FPC applications on the market, but they were already on the path by the time they could acquire a 458. I only point out the C8 as an example of how benchmarking does not equal copying.
 
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Tomster

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I got that and agreed with most of it. The only difference I was trying to point out is that by no means is Voodoo derived from Ferrari’s 458 engine. It was benchmarked, no doubt, but was not a real factor in determining what the Voodoo would be. Since Ford had already decided they were going FPC, it only made sense that they would acquire the best FPC applications on the market, but they were already on the path by the time they could acquire a 458. I only point out the C8 as an example of how benchmarking does not equal copying.
Actually Jamal Hameedi stated in the Jay Lenno GT350 youtube video that Ford bought, took apart, and engineered the voodoo after the Ferrari Italia 458. Watch the whole thing. It's at the part where the engine is discussed in Jays garage.

 

Lacquer

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Actually Jamal Hameedi stated in the Jay Lenno GT350 youtube video that Ford bought, took apart, and engineered the voodoo after the Ferrari Italia 458. Watch the whole thing. It's at the part where the engine is discussed in Jays garage.

He said they were benchmarking it after it was developed and the GT 350 engine was 13 pounds lighter.
 

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He said they were benchmarking it after it was developed and the GT 350 engine was 13 pounds lighter.
Not to bicker, but they tore it apart (disassembled it). Why would they do that if they were just benchmarking it?

They tore it apart, picked up a few good ideas, and incorporated it into the voodoo and saved 13 pounds is what I got from that.
 

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Darkane

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Not to bicker, but they tore it apart (disassembled it). Why would they do that if they were just benchmarking it?

They tore it apart, picked up a few good ideas, and incorporated it into the voodoo and saved 13 pounds is what I got from that.
Yeah I agree.

There’s no shame in benchmarking and drawing inspiration from the best.

FPC = Ferrari. Simple.

Every other manufacturer has a Porsche when designing and building a new performance variant. It was even seen with the ZL1, and GT500.
 

Eritas

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McLaren also has a FPC, and so was the Lotus Esprit. It's not like they were surprised the 458 had a FPC (when pretty much all of their V8s are) and decided to out one in the GT350. Heck the GT350 has a unique "flat" crank design that is different from all the FPCs found in Ferrari, McLaren, and 4cyl engines (up, down, up, down - vs . - up, down, down, up).
 

Dominator961

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Kids!
Today in school we’re going to learn how to follow along and pay attention to what others say.

Step 1) Read from the beginning.
Step 2) Don’t read the last post and comment before Step 1.
Step 3) Don’t argue facts.
 

Tomster

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Kids!
Today in school we’re going to learn how to follow along and pay attention to what others say.

Step 1) Read from the beginning.
Step 2) Don’t read the last post and comment before Step 1.
Step 3) Don’t argue facts.
I think later on, I am going to get the AG R out of the garage and go for a spin. What are you going to do today? :)

Face it, there is nothing going on around here. People are bored.
 

Dominator961

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I think later on, I am going to get the AG R out of the garage and go for a spin. What are you going to do today? :)

Face it, there is nothing going on around here. People are bored.
I agree.
But it’s funny how people read the last 1-2 comments and post on it without knowing the whole conversation from the start.

Enjoy your ride!
We’re getting 1” of rain here and no end in site today.
Happy Easter.
 

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martinjlm

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Not to bicker, but they tore it apart (disassembled it). Why would they do that if they were just benchmarking it?

They tore it apart, picked up a few good ideas, and incorporated it into the voodoo and saved 13 pounds is what I got from that.
Because that is exactly what benchmarking is. When I was at GM we had a room at Powertrain HQ that contained disassembled engines and transmissions from practically every competitor. Part of my job was to tell the benchmarking guys which vehicles to buy and what the powertrain configuration should be. Benchmarking is done to identify where everybody stands with regards to a number of issues... Mass, cylinder spacing, wall thickness, fastening methods, manufacturing methods et cetera. It was (is...it’s still there even though I am not) a physical library of sorts. All the parts are made available for anybody with proper clearance to come in, inspect the parts, read the write ups.
 

martinjlm

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Actually Jamal Hameedi stated in the Jay Lenno GT350 youtube video that Ford bought, took apart, and engineered the voodoo after the Ferrari Italia 458. Watch the whole thing. It's at the part where the engine is discussed in Jays garage.

He said they were benchmarking it after it was developed and the GT 350 engine was 13 pounds lighter.
He said they bought, took apart, and benchmarked the Ferrari Italia 458 engine. He did not say that they engineered Voodoo based on it. I’d bet mortgages that the Ferrari engine was not the only engine they bought to benchmark. Anybody developing a flat plane crank engine would be out off their mind NOT to benchmark a Ferrari flat plane. It doesn’t mean they copy it or design from it. It’s called benchmarking because it is the process of figuring out where the best competition is, then using your own engineering and tech to exceed it.
 

FastCarFanBoy

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He said they bought, took apart, and benchmarked the Ferrari Italia 458 engine. He did not say that they engineered Voodoo based on it. I’d bet mortgages that the Ferrari engine was not the only engine they bought to benchmark. Anybody developing a flat plane crank engine would be out off their mind NOT to benchmark a Ferrari flat plane. It doesn’t mean they copy it or design from it. It’s called benchmarking because it is the process of figuring out where the best competition is, then using your own engineering and tech to exceed it.
You are correct, they make it sound like Ford's engineers were incapable of building a flat plane crank engine without studying the F136 architecture.
 

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Wow, it really is slow around here lately.....
 
 




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