[UPDATED] First 2020 Shelby GT500 Sold For $1.1MM at Barrett-Jackson

[Epiphany]

Here's one of the "panels" that was posted at SVTP this morning...

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[Darkane]

Are you saying it's difficult to understand why minor changes are easier to make and less costly than major changes?

You said way cheaper. Justify it.

Without even considering major changes such as the rear quarters now transitioning to aluminum instead of steel saving 22-33 pounds. Different tooling is required, especially with metallurgical changes.

So tell me, specifically, why is it cheaper?

 

[Hack]

You said way cheaper. Justify it.

Without even considering major changes such as the rear quarters now transitioning to aluminum instead of steel saving 22-33 pounds. Different tooling is required, especially with metallurgical changes.

So tell me, specifically, why is it cheaper?

I work in a product development environment and when we perform FMEA work to develop our test plans, there is a difference in how much testing we will perform to qualify a minor product change as opposed to a major one. I can't imagine an automaker being dumb enough to test a minor change in the same way as a major change. I think this should be obvious to anyone.

Even the sheet metal design decisions will be easier and cheaper if you are only making minor changes. How many different artists and how much of their time do you need for tweaks versus "clean sheet"?

And though you aren't considering it - Porsche isn't changing back and forth between different materials on every new generation. The design philosophy of tweaking to improve rather than clean sheet of paper is appealing to me - especially when it comes to the appearance of the vehicle. IMO the 911 general appearance and shape is a timeless beauty. And it seems that many Porsche customers agree.

 

[Darkane]

I work in a product development environment and when we perform FMEA work to develop our test plans, there is a difference in how much testing we will perform to qualify a minor product change as opposed to a major one. I can't imagine an automaker being dumb enough to test a minor change in the same way as a major change. I think this should be obvious to anyone.

Even the sheet metal design decisions will be easier and cheaper if you are only making minor changes. How many different artists and how much of their time do you need for tweaks versus "clean sheet"?

And though you aren't considering it - Porsche isn't changing back and forth between different materials on every new generation. The design philosophy of tweaking to improve rather than clean sheet of paper is appealing to me - especially when it comes to the appearance of the vehicle. IMO the 911 general appearance and shape is a timeless beauty. And it seems that many Porsche customers agree.

Read up about the front fender and tell me if it’s a small change. This is separate from the rear quarter example inearlier talked about. Stylistically similar, the piece is 100% different, dimensionally by a lot.

But this is pointless arguing with you. So I’m done.

 

[stanglife]

IMO the 911 general appearance and shape is a timeless beauty. And it seems that many Porsche customers agree.

Yes. Porsche tried before to make a drastic change and received a ton of pushback. They have since based their brand on that design DNA and the fact that you can tell a Porsche the second you look at it - even though, they HAVE changed quite a bit. Porsche makes more profit on their cars than anyone else and I dare say, their owners club, PCA is more involved/better funded per owner than any other auto club I can think of. They are doing something right and a few non-Porsche owners who think they look like frogs aren't likely going to change that.

 

[stanglife]

Here's one of the "panels" that was posted at SVTP this morning...

ohhhhhh… if that fits GT350, I'm in. One of my big peeves is the hood flutter on these cars...I'm really amazed that more people don't make a bigger deal about it.

 

[Epiphany]

You posed a great question. You'd think it would fit...

 

[Tomster]

ohhhhhh… if that fits GT350, I'm in. One of my big peeves is the hood flutter on these cars...I'm really amazed that more people don't make a bigger deal about it.

You get used to it I guess. This year at Daytona, I hardly even noticed it.

 

[9secondko]

You said way cheaper. Justify it.

Without even considering major changes such as the rear quarters now transitioning to aluminum instead of steel saving 22-33 pounds. Different tooling is required, especially with metallurgical changes.

So tell me, specifically, why is it cheaper?

You have to readesign the entire panel. It’s not just “bending it” a bit more or less. It’s not magically “adding” or “subtracting” material. You must create a new design with new measurements. And then you must retool and create new stamping templates. All 100% brand new.

You might save a couple weeks or a month of design time (and the money associated). But that’s where it ends.

The fact is, it’s a conscious decision to keep this look going. It’s a purpose thing. It’s not due to money or ingenuity. It’s simply some long in the tooth folks that like things the way they’ve always been and refuse to grow (speaking of aesthetics only. The actual dynamics of the vehicles have been improving constantly).

 

[9secondko]

Lo

ohhhhhh… if that fits GT350, I'm in. One of my big peeves is the hood flutter on these cars...I'm really amazed that more people don't make a bigger deal about it.

oks like the 500?

Is that aftermarket or Ford?

With the pin holes, wonder if it’s a racing variant? Or... KR?

 

[Epiphany]

It's a GT500 hood, class A SMC. It will be a factory GT500 hood either on a KR-like variant or across the board.

 

[9secondko]

Yes. Porsche tried before to make a drastic change and received a ton of pushback. They have since based their brand on that design DNA and the fact that you can tell a Porsche the second you look at it - even though, they HAVE changed quite a bit. Porsche makes more profit on their cars than anyone else and I dare say, their owners club, PCA is more involved/better funded per owner than any other auto club I can think of. They are doing something right and a few non-Porsche owners who think they look like frogs aren't likely going to change that.

Looks unbelievably killer... AND is instantly recognizable as a Porsche.

That’s the 918 Spyder concept.

The production version still looked great but it was subdued in comparison.

Porsche only made 918 of them. On purpose.

Porsche should have taken inspiration from this if they wanted to move things forward aesthetically. Instead they mothballed the styling after they concluded their hybrid experiment.

Shame. The thing broke the ‘Ring record for a street legal production car at the time too.

No one is bagging on Porsche. But definitely nagging in the old, crusty thinking that keeps it from looking every bit as sharp as it’s conpetitors.

Look at Apple Devices. The new iPhone is quite s bit different looking than the original. But still carried the DNA. The new MACBOOK PRO looks very different from the original Titanium PowerBook. But it’s instantly recognizable as an Apple notebook.

Porsche can toss the frog look and still be revognizeable in s nano second. Look at the 918. Perfection.

 

[9secondko]

Yes. Porsche tried before to make a drastic change and received a ton of pushback. They have since based their brand on that design DNA and the fact that you can tell a Porsche the second you look at it - even though, they HAVE changed quite a bit. Porsche makes more profit on their cars than anyone else and I dare say, their owners club, PCA is more involved/better funded per owner than any other auto club I can think of. They are doing something right and a few non-Porsche owners who think they look like frogs aren't likely going to change that.

Looks unbelievably killer... AND is instantly recognizable as a Porsche.

But doesn’t look enough like a frog. So they went in a ne... OLD direction. Becausecertain people with authority want it that way. Alienating a new group of potential customers to satisfy the crust is just sad.

 

[stanglife]

You realized that's just your opinion, right? If you feel like everyone else is wrong, maybe you should write Porsche about it - maybe they will see the light and change everything....or they just keep selling what they are selling.

IMO, The 911 is gorgeous and I'm glad they don't just ditch the whole design (that's what you're suggesting, right?).

 

[9secondko]

You realized that's just your opinion, right? If you feel like everyone else is wrong, maybe you should write Porsche about it - maybe they will see the light and change everything....or they just keep selling what they are selling.

IMO, The 911 is gorgeous and I'm glad they don't just ditch the whole design (that's what you're suggesting, right?).

LOL. Of course it is. And I do realize I am more passionate about aesthetics than most people.

But you have mischaracterized that "everyone else may be wrong." Even on this thread, there are more that agree Porsche needs to update than those satisfied with the oldness.

And that's all over.

I get the respect for the past. but consider this: If there was no such thing as Porsche and all of a sudden they started up as a company this year and their offering looked like that... yeah. It'd get panned. The capabilities would be lauded deservedly. But the looks? Nope.

And you are incorrect in ditching the whole design. it is about rethinking and honoring the badge at the same time. Look at the 918. It does a great job of both. What I am saying is that Porchse doesn't have to make the car look literally like the old one - they can keep identifying cues while cranking out some epic sheetmetal.

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