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C&D Lightning Lap 2018 Results for GT PP2

Hack

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I didn't take it as an attack so it's all good. I can see your point. I didn't fully explain myself properly tho. What I mean tho is that some tracks might favor the PP2 and on those tracks I'm sure it COULD beat the GT350. That much is obvious based on the fact that the PP2 beat the SS 1LE's time by a large margin on one track and then the SS 1LE did better than the PP2 on a completely different track. Of course different drivers and different days yada yada. But it's still valid. I think there are tracks where the PP2 will beat the GT350 especially if it is in it's powerband more than the GT350 or if it can use more of it's powerband. We will have to see. Even if I'm wrong and it can't I think it will be extremely close. Time will tell.
I agree that different tracks will suit different cars. A smaller track with lots of tight corners should suit a car with stickier tires and minimize the impact of HP differences.
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Stuntman

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So as I suspected, you replied to me but you were off topic to the conversation that was going on.
Pointing out the fact that the 10mm nominal difference you're "a little anal" about is actually 25mm seems very relevant.
 

Hack

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Pointing out the fact that the 10mm nominal difference you're "a little anal" about is actually 25mm seems very relevant.
And you still don't understand...
 

Stuntman

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And you still don't understand...
Yes I do, you're quibbling about jake incorrectly stating a nominal tire width for the GT350, but his point of the gt350 having a smaller tire is pretty valid especially when you look at the actual tread width of each tire.
 

4V Mayhem

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Corner exit speed is going to be more important than HP unless it is a pretty long straight. That requires grip. The tires on the PP2 and the SS1LE are both superior for track duty to the MPSS on the 350. It is also the biggest performance enhancement on the 350R.

I think this is why you'll see comparable lap times for a 350, PP2, and SS1LE despite the HP advantage for the 350. It's also why the 350R is faster than all 3 along with some weight savings and aero.
Exactly! And given that we've seen the SS 1LE match the Shelby's time while the PP2 beat the SS 1LE's times, even tho it was different day and the two tracks are different, I think it is still safe to assume that the PP2 can definitely take on the regular GT350 and beat it on some tracks if that track favors the PP2 and if the tires it comes with can help it out.

I agree that different tracks will suit different cars. A smaller track with lots of tight corners should suit a car with stickier tires and minimize the impact of HP differences.
Yes. Most certainly not every track will favor any particular car. But some cars will have advantages on some tracks. Give them a track where the Shelby can stretch it's legs more and it'll be ahead for sure,
 

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Stuntman

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The GT350 has bespoke PSS, so it's probably stickier than a standard off the shelf PSS. But then again, the same goes for the stickier PSC2.
 

J_Maher_AMG

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The GT350 has bespoke PSS, so it's probably stickier than a standard off the shelf PSS. But then again, the same goes for the stickier PSC2.
From what BJR said about the Cup 2's on the PP2, they are not the same as what comes on the R in terms of compound/design. I would say they favor closer to off the shelf Cup 2's which are not as sticky but tend to have deeper treadwdith and last a lot longer. I may even try some OTS Cup 2's next to see if I can get more than 5K out of them (~7200kms on OEM Cup 2's and they were slicks lol).
 

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Yes I do, you're quibbling about jake incorrectly stating a nominal tire width for the GT350, but his point of the gt350 having a smaller tire is pretty valid especially when you look at the actual tread width of each tire.
I agree the tire tread width matters and part of the performance of the SC2 tires on the GT350R or the PP2 is compound but another significant contributor to their performance is tread width.

It makes sense that the tramlining is more of an issue with tires that are not only wider, but have more square shoulders and a stickier compound.
 

Stuntman

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From what BJR said about the Cup 2's on the PP2, they are not the same as what comes on the R in terms of compound/design. I would say they favor closer to off the shelf Cup 2's which are not as sticky but tend to have deeper treadwdith and last a lot longer. I may even try some OTS Cup 2's next to see if I can get more than 5K out of them (~7200kms on OEM Cup 2's and they were slicks lol).
Who? I thought in a Ford press release they said it was the GT350R front tire all around.
 

J_Maher_AMG

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Who? I thought in a Ford press release they said it was the GT350R front tire all around.
Billy Johnson (BillyJohnsonRacing on here); they specifically said it is not the same as the GT350R tire and that it isn't as aggressive a compound, just the same nominal size. More street friendly/durable compound.
 
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jake_zx2

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Hate to bring up a sour subject, buuuuuuut...
"Our test gear confirmed these impressions, with the Level 2 hanging on for 1.06 g of stick on our skidpad with minimal understeer. Just a few hundredths shy of the 1.10 g posted by the Shelby GT350R, it tops the 1.02 g of grip earned by our long-term Mustang Shelby GT350."

Also like to point out, the stop from 70MPH in the PP2 was 146ft, albeit "the well-worn tires on our Ford test car, could easily have affected the outcome."... The GT350 pulled 153ft from the same test by the same publication
 

Moogatwo

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Hate to bring up a sour subject, buuuuuuut...
"Our test gear confirmed these impressions, with the Level 2 hanging on for 1.06 g of stick on our skidpad with minimal understeer. Just a few hundredths shy of the 1.10 g posted by the Shelby GT350R, it tops the 1.02 g of grip earned by our long-term Mustang Shelby GT350."

Also like to point out, the stop from 70MPH in the PP2 was 146ft, albeit "the well-worn tires on our Ford test car, could easily have affected the outcome."... The GT350 pulled 153ft from the same test by the same publication

My OEM PSS's lasted three track days. For track duty, I replaced them with SC2's on lightweight forged wheels. Most of the GT350s I see on the track have also replaced their tires and boat anchor OEM wheels with better options.


Outside of magazine benchmark racing, I am not sure how many GT350 owners are tracking their cars at 100% OEM spec once the super sports wear out. They are great street tires, but the SC2s are so much better.


In the hands of equally skilled drivers, I am not surprised a PP2 can outperform a GT350 with stock tires on certain tracks.
 

jake_zx2

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My OEM PSS's lasted three track days. For track duty, I replaced them with SC2's on lightweight forged wheels. Most of the GT350s I see on the track have also replaced their tires and boat anchor OEM wheels with better options.


Outside of magazine benchmark racing, I am not sure how many GT350 owners are tracking their cars at 100% OEM spec once the super sports wear out. They are great street tires, but the SC2s are so much better.


In the hands of equally skilled drivers, I am not surprised a PP2 can outperform a GT350 with stock tires on certain tracks.
Yep, that's exactly what I've been saying. The SC2s are incredible tires, and MUCH better than the PSS. It's not hard to believe that a stock PP2 can outperform a stock GT350, and the thought of having to spend $1600 on tires for a car that's already $10k+ more expensive just to make it faster doesn't sound so sweet to me
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