2015-17 Mustang GT Ford Performance Power Packs

[2morrow]

Ok, I got unlucky with this. The GT350 cold air intake came without the rubber seal on it. We noticed this at the dealer and they don't see a problem installing it without it for now until I get it the rubber seal from where I bought the kit. Do you guys see any concerns with this? I guess some hot air will leak-in in the meantime but everything else should be fine?

You'll be fine.

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[Kong76]

I've had this kit in the garage since the original group buy about two years ago. Never downloaded the file or registered the kit. Had some issues and didn't feel comfortable putting it on. Well known tuner in my area said he had a few customers come to him with pinging/knock issues using the kit. Has this been rectified? Im now nearing 23k and will prob install myself once I call Ford performance to check if the code is still good.

 

[white15gt]

I've had this kit in the garage since the original group buy about two years ago. Never downloaded the file or registered the kit. Had some issues and didn't feel comfortable putting it on. Well known tuner in my area said he had a few customers come to him with pinging/knock issues using the kit. Has this been rectified? Im now nearing 23k and will prob install myself once I call Ford performance to check if the code is still good.

There are thousands of people with PP2, with no issues. Of course a tuner is going to make it sound like it's a bad kit...

 

[TheLion]

I've had this kit in the garage since the original group buy about two years ago. Never downloaded the file or registered the kit. Had some issues and didn't feel comfortable putting it on. Well known tuner in my area said he had a few customers come to him with pinging/knock issues using the kit. Has this been rectified? Im now nearing 23k and will prob install myself once I call Ford performance to check if the code is still good.

Has the tuner done over 400 drag launches with his tune? Has he tested it with a fully sensored car over altitude ranges, load ranges and temperature ranges? Tested over a wide variety of fuel stations with varying quality of fuel? Test it' on multiple production builds?

That's the problem with these shop tuners, sure they can squeeze 10 hp more out of it, but often that's on their 93 only tunes AND they are not nearly as thoroughly tested in real world applications. 91 to 91 they aren't really making any more power. They just don't have the resources to do the proper testing nor doe they offer a warranty. Ford Performance works directly with Ford Engineering that actually designed the motor and did the torture testing. 3,000 Hours at maximum power (6,500 RPM), run it 100F above normal operating temp for several minutes, turn it off and shock it by pouring ice water into the intake then start it back up and do it over and over for several days straight...I'd imagine the engineers that design the engine know it quite a bit better. But they also have to tune it to run on low grade 87 and meet factory safety margins, emissions and fuel economy which can cut into the available power if fuel economy and low grade octane were removed from the requirement list.

I don't have an issue with people using custom "shop tunes", but I think their most appropriate application is for a car that's 1. paid off 2. the owner doesn't depend on as actual transportation (aka a weekend toy) and 3. are using in actual competition where they can afford to loose an engine if that's what it takes to win. The other 99% of us don't want to risk an engine or pay 10k for a new one. By that point you should have just bought a used GT350 or a super charged Camaro 1LE...

Shop tuners rely on a customers testing their changes for them and adjust if they have issues. So we fault Ford Performance for some minor pinging in a small percentage of cars that hasn't' caused anyone any damage and has been able to be remedied with built in options or better fuel or catch cans but shop tuners have trashed how many engines and have also caused pinging in how many cars before they had to "tweak it" to get it to work? But that's ok right because it's not a "canned tune", it can have issues and it's still good....

It think we are forgetting that these are high adaptive programs. They are not a fixed program with fixed variables that you should have to "tweak" to get it to work. All the "tweaking" is built into the programs scale ability and range of adaptation. It should give you as much power as it can safely under a given condition and it scales as conditions change. This "canned tune" nonsense is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life...as well written engine calibration will adapt as conditions change, fuel, air temp, humidity, load conditions and even engine wear issues or fuel dilution that may not allow as much timing to be applied safely. It shouldn't have to be tweaked in the majority of situations unless there are some unusual conditions outside it's range of adaptation. For that they also have the Octane Adjust feature which uses less aggressive mappings.

As I've said before, RELIABILITY trumps all else. Your not going to care how fast it is if your riding home in the cab of a tow truck and shelling out 10k for a new engine...cause that's not fun by anyone's measure.

Even stock cars can knock under certain conditions, the user manual even has recommendations based on that very issue. For example at high altitude or towing the user manual says you need to run 91 or higher fuel even on the stock engine.

Ford Performance isn't perfect, neither is Ford. But their success rate is MUCH higher than the after market when it comes to reliability and on the rare occasion there is an issue you have a warranty to back you up.

Remember Ford Performance also got the 87mm GT350 throttle body to work well with the stock 5.0 when most other tuners couldn't. So their Power Pack 2 has that advantage that also makes up for some of their more conservative timing strategies, allowing them to achieve similar performance without eating into safety margins.

Their gains are coming primarily from 2 areas. 1. Giving up lower octane fuel and 2. reducing intake restrictions as much as possible. The 87mm throttle body has some advantages even if the stock intake manifold has an 80 mm opening.

Because it uses a tapered adapter, it acts like a velocity stack just like the air aid intake tubes. This creates a nice transition point that has very low drag from the higher flowing 87 mm opening.

Also consider the fact that the stock throttle body, while 80 mm just like the intake manifold opening, actually has less area to flow than 80 mm because the valve is still in the way. By using an up-sized 87 mm throttle body, your getting closer to a completely open 80 mm area like the intake manifold throat. This makes the 87 mm throttle body act more like an 80 mm if you could magically "remove" the butter fly valve at WOT for maximum flow.

 

[p411mstang]

Had mine installed this weekend LOVE IT!

 

[Humphammer]

I've had this kit in the garage since the original group buy about two years ago. Never downloaded the file or registered the kit. Had some issues and didn't feel comfortable putting it on. Well known tuner in my area said he had a few customers come to him with pinging/knock issues using the kit. Has this been rectified? Im now nearing 23k and will prob install myself once I call Ford performance to check if the code is still good.

I can't speak for anyone but me and I admit I've only put around 350 miles on mine since I installed my PP2 but my car is spot on. I have heard no pinging in mixed driving and the car runs smooth as silk. The increased torque is noticeable in every aspect of driving. The extra rumble you get from I suppose the more open intake when you hit the 3,000 and up RPM range is also welcome to my overly quite stock (except for an H pipe) exhaust as well. So far i am a very happy camper. I installed mine myself and it took probably an hour and a half to two hours start to finish. And BTW if you keep your foot out of it you will see an increase in MPG.....at least I have.

 

[TheLion]

On a side note, I thoroughly thrashed my GT this weekend with my Power Pack 2. 80F out and I took a full passenger load for a ride for two 20 minute intervals on back roads.

Mostly 2nd and 3rd gear repeated pulls over and over WOT. As soon as it was safe to do so I was on that throttle topping out 3rd and bouncing off the rev limiter before I'd slow down at a corner and do it again once the road straightened back up.

Actually the car was bit over loaded with passengers, about 750 lbs of passengers (max cargo load with passengers is 685 lbs).

There was no pinging, no heat issues with oil or coolant. It just kept taking the power. I then drove home later that night 155 miles (about 3 hours drive) with my family in the car, no issues. I'm just running a Power Pack 2, Corsa Extreme exhaust and motor craft 5W-20 and motor craft filter. I am not running the alternate timing maps, so it's making full power. It does make a little more power on 93 than 91 as it does learn the fuel grade. I believe the dyno's that Ford Performance posts are from 91 which is their base line. It's adaptive like stock.

That would be why most people get a little more power if they run 93 than the advertised 21 peak HP. A stock 6M PP GT should make 390 HP to the wheels on 93. 1.12 x 390 HP = 435 HP Crank. Factory spec. A Cat Back exhaust with an X-pipe is typically worth about 5 to 7 HP. LMR was running the Ford Performance GT350 style cat back exhaust on their base line run on 93 octane, they got 395 whp, exactly as expect. With the Power Pack 2 they hit a peak of 421 WHP or x 1.12 = 471 Crank HP. Sounds about right if you add in the gains from 93 and the Cat Back exhuast (about 10 to 15 hp combined over 91 on stock exhaust). Ford P. also said they've seen up for 495 Crank HP from their Power Pack 3 with 93 and a full cat back. Their advertised 472 is on an other wise bone stock car running 91. It all adds up just fine and I'd believe every bit of it based on how well the car pulls, still feels strong even with 750 lbs of cargo!

Car has about 750 miles on it now since the Power Pack 2. I run 93 exclusively but not from any particular station. I've used speedway, BP, Sunoco, Krogers and Valero 93. Both Ma and Pa 4 pump low volume stations (known for dirty gas) and high volume 12 pump stations on the highways. Thus far I have had 0 issues beating the crap out of it.

I had the Ford Performance Power Pack on my Ecoboost and never had any issues with that either doing the same stuff. Car had 36k miles when I traded it in. Power Pack on my Ecoboost went in at 15k miles. But I did crack a spark plug insulator and have some pinging with the Livernois 91 calibration on my Ecoboost mustang I had prior, after which I "down graded" to the Ford Performance Power Pack because I wanted the car to last and I'd never looked back. But the EB just wasn't capable of the performance I wanted on the stock turbo and bottom end without sacrificing reliability or using exotic fueling (E85) and a custom tune which was an even bigger issue for me since I had E-check in my county, another boon of the Ford Performance offerings, so I stepped up the to GT this past December. Big improvement and while the GT was about 90% of achieving my vision, it still wasn't quite there and hence the modifications.

With the Power Pack 2 it's good enough. I don't find myself wanting more power, it has just the right amount. It's not a drag car. It's a street / auto x and occasional track car. It pulls really nice from the 4k and up range with that oh so broad mid-range power and keeps pulling all the way to 6500. While it flattens out past 6500 a little, it's still very usable power, making the same power at 7150 RPM that it used to make at the peak at 6500 RPM stock. The 5.0 just loves to rev out and is smooth all the way up. The extra rev range is welcome as well, the car's gearing felt a little too short with 3.73's and a 6800 RPM rev limit. It's just right as is and I can even run smaller diameter 285/35R19's due to the extra rev range and still hit 62 in 2nd and 90 in 3rd. With stock tire sizing I have now (275/40R19 rear and 255/40R19 front), I hit 65 in 2nd and 94 in 3rd. Not too shabby!

 

[re-rx7]

Has the tuner done over 400 drag launches with his tune? Has he tested it with a fully sensored car over altitude ranges, load ranges and temperature ranges? Tested over a wide variety of fuel stations with varying quality of fuel? Test it' on multiple production builds?

That's the problem with these shop tuners, sure they can squeeze 10 hp more out of it, but often that's on their 93 only tunes AND they are not nearly as thoroughly tested in real world applications. 91 to 91 they aren't really making any more power. They just don't have the resources to do the proper testing nor doe they offer a warranty. Ford Performance works directly with Ford Engineering that actually designed the motor and did the torture testing. 3,000 Hours at maximum power (6,500 RPM), run it 100F above normal operating temp for several minutes, turn it off and shock it by pouring ice water into the intake then start it back up and do it over and over for several days straight...I'd imagine the engineers that design the engine know it quite a bit better. But they also have to tune it to run on low grade 87 and meet factory safety margins, emissions and fuel economy which can cut into the available power if fuel economy and low grade octane were removed from the requirement list.

I don't have an issue with people using custom "shop tunes", but I think their most appropriate application is for a car that's 1. paid off 2. the owner doesn't depend on as actual transportation (aka a weekend toy) and 3. are using in actual competition where they can afford to loose an engine if that's what it takes to win. The other 99% of us don't want to risk an engine or pay 10k for a new one. By that point you should have just bought a used GT350 or a super charged Camaro 1LE...

Shop tuners rely on a customers testing their changes for them and adjust if they have issues. So we fault Ford Performance for some minor pinging in a small percentage of cars that hasn't' caused anyone any damage and has been able to be remedied with built in options or better fuel or catch cans but shop tuners have trashed how many engines and have also caused pinging in how many cars before they had to "tweak it" to get it to work? But that's ok right because it's not a "canned tune", it can have issues and it's still good....

It think we are forgetting that these are high adaptive programs. They are not a fixed program with fixed variables that you should have to "tweak" to get it to work. All the "tweaking" is built into the programs scale ability and range of adaptation. It should give you as much power as it can safely under a given condition and it scales as conditions change. This "canned tune" nonsense is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life...as well written engine calibration will adapt as conditions change, fuel, air temp, humidity, load conditions and even engine wear issues or fuel dilution that may not allow as much timing to be applied safely. It shouldn't have to be tweaked in the majority of situations unless there are some unusual conditions outside it's range of adaptation. For that they also have the Octane Adjust feature which uses less aggressive mappings.

As I've said before, RELIABILITY trumps all else. Your not going to care how fast it is if your riding home in the cab of a tow truck and shelling out 10k for a new engine...cause that's not fun by anyone's measure.

Even stock cars can knock under certain conditions, the user manual even has recommendations based on that very issue. For example at high altitude or towing the user manual says you need to run 91 or higher fuel even on the stock engine.

Ford Performance isn't perfect, neither is Ford. But their success rate is MUCH higher than the after market when it comes to reliability and on the rare occasion there is an issue you have a warranty to back you up.

Remember Ford Performance also got the 87mm GT350 throttle body to work well with the stock 5.0 when most other tuners couldn't. So their Power Pack 2 has that advantage that also makes up for some of their more conservative timing strategies, allowing them to achieve similar performance without eating into safety margins.

Their gains are coming primarily from 2 areas. 1. Giving up lower octane fuel and 2. reducing intake restrictions as much as possible. The 87mm throttle body has some advantages even if the stock intake manifold has an 80 mm opening.

Because it uses a tapered adapter, it acts like a velocity stack just like the air aid intake tubes. This creates a nice transition point that has very low drag from the higher flowing 87 mm opening.

Also consider the fact that the stock throttle body, while 80 mm just like the intake manifold opening, actually has less area to flow than 80 mm because the valve is still in the way. By using an up-sized 87 mm throttle body, your getting closer to a completely open 80 mm area like the intake manifold throat. This makes the 87 mm throttle body act more like an 80 mm if you could magically "remove" the butter fly valve at WOT for maximum flow.

Great post on R&D. Alot of people dont take this into account when searching for that last 7whp lol. I have 20k miles on my car since the pp2 install and she is running great.

 

[Humphammer]

Removal of honeycomb grill plate.

Part of the front grill is solid and blocking the intake snorkel. I mentioned this a few posts back and asked if anyone had removed it and no one replied. So this morning I decided to remove mine and see if it made any discernible difference in the way the car ran. While I couldn't tell any seat of the pants difference I can say that it seems to drop the intake temperature a couple of degrees. Before I removed it I drove the car for about five miles at a steady 60 mph. The outside temperature was 70 and the intake air temperature was 78-79. I came back home removed the honeycomb grill plate and drove the same route at a steady 60 mph. Although the outside temperature had risen one degree to 71 the intake air temperature was actually lower at 76-77. Don't know if this is enough to change anything but it certainly shouldn't hurt it.

 

[Amacron]

Have a PP2 on order. My 2015 GT premium non pp car. Currently have 9k on her. The car came from the factory with the 20” wheels. After I install it will I have to worry (program) for the larger wheels?

 

[thelostotter]

Have a PP2 on order. My 2015 GT premium non pp car. Currently have 9k on her. The car came from the factory with the 20” wheels. After I install it will I have to worry (program) for the larger wheels?

The Pro cal tool will pull your existing tire/wheel information from the PCM. When I did mine it carried over all of the right settings. If for whatever reason yours does not, it is very easy to correct and it gives you the option to change if you ever get a different size tire.

 

[TheLion]

Part of the front grill is solid and blocking the intake snorkel. I mentioned this a few posts back and asked if anyone had removed it and no one replied. So this morning I decided to remove mine and see if it made any discernible difference in the way the car ran. While I couldn't tell any seat of the pants difference I can say that it seems to drop the intake temperature a couple of degrees. Before I removed it I drove the car for about five miles at a steady 60 mph. The outside temperature was 70 and the intake air temperature was 78-79. I came back home removed the honeycomb grill plate and drove the same route at a steady 60 mph. Although the outside temperature had risen one degree to 71 the intake air temperature was actually lower at 76-77. Don't know if this is enough to change anything but it certainly shouldn't hurt it.

Your air filter will get full of road debris a lot more quickly. The stock design pulls most of the air from the front right before it passes to the radiator. The small holes in the stock grill are designed to allow just enough air to flow through to create a low pressure point.

It's a balance between a "ram air" as a completely open grille would be (that is highly susceptible to road debris / contamination and a "fender well" snorkel that has limited flow.

 

[re-rx7]

Your air filter will get full of road debris a lot more quickly. The stock design pulls most of the air from the front right before it passes to the radiator. The small holes in the stock grill are designed to allow just enough air to flow through to create a low pressure point.

It's a balance between a "ram air" as a completely open grille would be (that is highly susceptible to road debris / contamination and a "fender well" snorkel that has limited flow.

Agreed. I opened mine up and can attest to the bug accumulation. However if you like wrenching on ur car a gd shake takes care of it.

 

[Aras]

Guys, get the PP2. Even though I had some issues initially not receiving some parts of the kit, the car feels so much better after it. It pulls no matter what gear you are on. Gas mileage appears to be the same. Mine is a PP with 3.73 gears if that matters. Cars seems to run a little louder which I wish didn't happen. The starts especially are louder. I'm on corsa extremes so it doesn't help.

I don't understand the change in high rpm shifting though, can't seem to get it right for some reason. Any ideas? Car stutters immediately after I shift the gear for a sec.

 

[thelostotter]

Guys, get the PP2. Even though I had some issues initially not receiving some parts of the kit, the car feels so much better after it. It pulls no matter what gear you are on. Gas mileage appears to be the same. Mine is a PP with 3.73 gears if that matters. Cars seems to run a little louder which I wish didn't happen. The starts especially are louder. I'm on corsa extremes so it doesn't help.

I don't understand the change in high rpm shifting though, can't seem to get it right for some reason. Any ideas? Car stutters immediately after I shift the gear for a sec.

That is the no lift shift feature kicking in because you are getting on the throttle before the clutch is all the way out. I agree it is annoying and I wish it could be turned off. I’ve learned to time it right most of the time but I still get the studder once in a while.

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