Trade PP2 for Mach1

[JacksonvilleBill]

Everyone keeps saying the Mach1 is expensive. It’s not really much more than a GT when it’s loaded with similar options. I built a GT with all the options I wanted and built the Mach1 with the options I wanted. The Mach1 was $2400 more than the GT. To me it was a no brainer and I ordered a Mach1. Am I missing something?

I agree with your decision. I was glad to pay a little more to get the extras on the Mach 1, I like the look, and that Tremec 6 speed alone is worth it to me. I think it will hold value a little better, so you might be able to recoup some of the extra cost when selling or trading in the future.

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[Idaho2018GTPremium]

If you put equal tires on a V8 equipped Mustang it will be competitive with the SS 1LE. That's why the GT350R is faster and the Cup 2 GT350 is faster. Also the PP2 Mustang GT is faster than the SS 1LE.

What people forget or like to ignore is that the SS 1LE has really crazy sticky tires that wear out really quickly. Those tires are stickier than what most Mustangs get. And I think Ford did it right because I don't want Cup 2s on my daily street driver. I want to give up a little grip for a tire that will last 10,000 - 15,000 miles rather than replacing my tires several times per year.

You're contradicting yourself and spreading mis-information and showing us your ignorance or bias on the subject. You say "Ford did it right" and "SS 1LE has really crazy sticky tires that wear out really quickly" and "I don't want Cup 2s on my daily driver" and "replacing tires several times per year". Coming from a manufacturer (Ford) that puts Cup 2s on every Mustang "sort of" track trim. No. The SS 1LE has Goodyear Eagle Supercar 3 tires - they are very, very good tires, but not stickier than Cup 2s on the PP2 - and they are narrower in the front (285 vs 305). They are not the SC3R tires that come on the ZLE which it seems you are trying to make people think. The SC3 tires are between the PS4S and Cup 2, a happy medium, if you will.

Case in point re: which is "faster": Throttle house did a same driver, same day, same TIRE, and the SS 1LE was more than 1 second quicker on their very short track than the PP2. Plus, in that same video, the SS 1LE beat the PP2 from a dig in the 1/4 mile which matches the results from every magazine test as well.

The PP2 is not definitively faster around a track than an SS 1LE even with the SC3 tires - it was faster at lightning lap with laps taken a couple of years apart (with the 1LE on the SC3 tires, not Cup 2s, obviously). One can not compare two different days/conditions. There have been other tests showing the 1LE faster, despite the less aggressive tire.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Oh, the old fugly Camaro rears its head. It's a chevy and its ugly, what more to discuss?

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Oh, the old fugly Camaro rears its head. It's a chevy and its ugly, what more to discuss?

Creative.

 

[Zooks527]

Everyone keeps saying the Mach1 is expensive. It’s not really much more than a GT when it’s loaded with similar options. I built a GT with all the options I wanted and built the Mach1 with the options I wanted. The Mach1 was $2400 more than the GT. To me it was a no brainer and I ordered a Mach1. Am I missing something?

If you got the same discount off MSRP with the M1 that you could have with the GT, then no, you're not missing anything.

If you paid MSRP for the M1, but could have worked a decent amount off the list price of the GT, then you're missing that difference.

 

[GotNotch]

If you got the same discount off MSRP with the M1 that you could have with the GT, then no, you're not missing anything.

If you paid MSRP for the M1, but could have worked a decent amount off the list price of the GT, then you're missing that difference.

Fair point. I got 2% below invoice on the Mach 1 and I could have got the gt at 4% below invoice so roughly another 1k off. So $3400 savings if I went with the GT. Still a no brainer for me to choose the Mach 1.

 

[GUSTOPP2]

For me a car is about what I enjoy the most. Last year I had a 20 992 911S that was crazy fast, but not near as much fun to drive as the Mach 1. I had an 18 GT3 (pics attached) that was an awesome car and would outperform the Mach 1 in every way, but not as fun to drive on the street, which is where I drive. I don't track my cars. I have enjoyed owning 25 mustangs, from classic to modern, there is just something about the DNA of the mustang that I enjoy, may not make sense to you, but my car ownership is about what I enjoy! My 21 Mach 1 reminds me of a 69 Mach 1 that I had about 20 years ago (pic below). Have a great day and enjoy your car, based on what you like!

Yes. He is not saying the Mach 1 is better. Just that he enjoys it more. My favorite car I have owned was my 1989 rx-7 Turbo ii. It was the most FUN I have ever had in a car. I still look for them to maybe get one again. Many cars I have had since will "Win" in a race or what not but nothing made me smile like the balance and swiftness of that damn turbo rotary in that light car. My friend made fun of me for getting it(muscle car only type guy) and he wanted to drive it NON STOP and admitted he loved that "Stupid" car more than he thought possible. Not a straight up comparison but not everything is about what numbers a car will put up.

 

[Smunczen]

I’ll say this I bought my 2020 PP2 for 4K off sticker which was almost 51k. The Mach1is selling for sticker shock is 59k. The dealer is offering me what I paid for my car right now. So I have a 15k difference ballpark. I don’t think I like the Mach1 15k more.

 

[GotNotch]

I’ll say this I bought my 2020 PP2 for 4K off sticker which was almost 51k. The Mach1is selling for sticker shock is 59k. The dealer is offering me what I paid for my car right now. So I have a 15k difference ballpark. I don’t think I like the Mach1 15k more.

2% below invoice is around 4K off sticker on the Mach 1. This is what Zach at Granger is selling them for.

 

[Atlas1]

I’ll say this I bought my 2020 PP2 for 4K off sticker which was almost 51k. The Mach1is selling for sticker shock is 59k. The dealer is offering me what I paid for my car right now. So I have a 15k difference ballpark. I don’t think I like the Mach1 15k more.

Unless I’m missing something, why not take the offer for your current car and then order a Mach 1 through granger Ford?

 

[Hack]

Everyone keeps saying the Mach1 is expensive. It’s not really much more than a GT when it’s loaded with similar options. I built a GT with all the options I wanted and built the Mach1 with the options I wanted. The Mach1 was $2400 more than the GT. To me it was a no brainer and I ordered a Mach1. Am I missing something?

I agree all GTs are expensive and the price of a Mustang GT has gone up quite a bit in the last 5-6 years. I think you made a good decision buying the Mach for $2400 more.

Hate to break it to you but the SS/1LE comes with Supercar 3 (not R) and is roughly comparable to the PS4s but noticeably heavier though. I found this out throwing them over my head to put on racks. The Cup2 weigh nothing by comparison.

Yes the treadwear index of the Supercar 3 tires is similar to the GT350R Cup 2s. The Supercar 3Rs have even lower treadwear - much lower. The PS4S has a lot longer tread life compared to a Supercar 3 tire. That's what gives the Camaro an advantage is extremely sticky and short life tires.

You're contradicting yourself and spreading mis-information and showing us your ignorance or bias on the subject. You say "Ford did it right" and "SS 1LE has really crazy sticky tires that wear out really quickly" and "I don't want Cup 2s on my daily driver" and "replacing tires several times per year". Coming from a manufacturer (Ford) that puts Cup 2s on every Mustang "sort of" track trim. No. The SS 1LE has Goodyear Eagle Supercar 3 tires - they are very, very good tires, but not stickier than Cup 2s on the PP2 - and they are narrower in the front (285 vs 305). They are not the SC3R tires that come on the ZLE which it seems you are trying to make people think. The SC3 tires are between the PS4S and Cup 2, a happy medium, if you will.

Case in point re: which is "faster": Throttle house did a same driver, same day, same TIRE, and the SS 1LE was more than 1 second quicker on their very short track than the PP2. Plus, in that same video, the SS 1LE beat the PP2 from a dig in the 1/4 mile which matches the results from every magazine test as well.

The PP2 is not definitively faster around a track than an SS 1LE even with the SC3 tires - it was faster at lightning lap with laps taken a couple of years apart (with the 1LE on the SC3 tires, not Cup 2s, obviously). One can not compare two different days/conditions. There have been other tests showing the 1LE faster, despite the less aggressive tire.

You can always find a test by non-pro YouTubers that will show whatever you want. The newer Mustangs with the Cup 2s have been shown to be faster (only very slightly faster, but still faster) than the SS 1LE by the major car testing companies that employ professionals to to the testing. The Cup 2s have roughly equivalent tread wear rating to the tires on the SS 1LE. Absolute truth.

To be clear, I don't like that Ford is putting Cup 2s on so many cars now. It's just like the Supercar 3 tires that Chevy put on the SS 1LE. Basically it makes people think the car is faster but really it just has an extremely sticky tire. Like I said before I prefer a 300 tread wear compound like the Pilot Super Sports that were on my GT350. The tires with tread wear around 200 like Cup 2s and Supercar 3s wear out too quickly IMO. And Supercar 3Rs have insanely short tire life. Much shorter than Cup 2s and Supercar 3s.

 

[mustang5o]

Treadwear doesn't tell the whole story but:

Sport Cup 2 (OE) = 180TW
GY Supercar 3 = 220TW
GY Supercar 3R = 100TW

I've run RE71's (200TW) for pretty much only track use (a few street miles to one close track and for gas, car wash...). They are looking to last me about 8-10 track days. I know a guy who got a new GT350 Heritage with handling package and destroyed the Sport Cup 2's in about 3 track days plus the street miles he put on breaking in the car.

When I got my PP2 I replaced the Cup2's immediately with Hankook RS 4's so I'd have a long lasting tire for the street but I could still use for track if I wanted. If I got a Mach 1 I'd likely replace the Cup2's right away again but use the Cup2's for the track this time (sold my PP2 Cup2's).

 

[Roadway 5.0]

I have been looking at maybe trading my 20 PP2 for Mach1. The dealer I bought my car has made me an offer of what I paid for my car in Dec of last year. I can by a nice spec Mach1 for sticker. I just don’t think it’s worth owing more on a car. I’d be taking on 12k more on a car loan than I have now. I put allot down on my car and have a small payment and kinda like that. I just don’t think there’s 12k of value in a Mach1.

Love the Mach 1...so nostalgic.

I dare say, though, that a stock low mile PP2 will be worth more than a similar S550 M1 in 20 years. The PP2 is a rare and unique run; maybe a bit less desirable without the Mach’s name sake, but pretty limited.

 

[Smunczen]

Looks like I’ll be keeping the car. Not upset about it at all. I’m really lucky to own one.

 

[mustang5o]

I was also going to comment on the value of the Mach 1 vs the PP2. I've considered this change quite a bit and will still be considering it until they quit making the Mach 1. The value is there depending on how you look at it.

Just in parts you are probably close to $8000-$8500 to get a PP2 upgraded with coolers, Calimer Stage 2 or maybe Tremec (has anyone found that part as an upgrade?), camber plates, Ford Performance tune. The Mach 1 front end is also built for better cooling so I put in parts for better grills and track vents for the hood. If you need to pay for installation then you go up quickly. Plus as has been mentioned the Mach 1 will likely hold value better and it will all be covered under warranty.

So for me, if I can make the cost workout I'll gladly pay the difference. At this point I'm not planning to get any more upgrades for my PP2. I'm saving for parts and could end up using that money towards a Mach 1 instead.

If you don't track your car you could skip lots of upgrades or don't get any and save lots of money. The PP2 is a great car to drive as it comes from the factory in my opinion. It also looks really good. They wheels make all the difference. When I put my track wheels on the car just doesn't look as good.

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