Driveline vibe: Has any vendor come up with a solution?

Cobra Jet · Jan 25, 2017

I don't need to get into the whole issue - as there is a gigantic thread that already details the issue. Many S550 owners have documented their frustrations after multiple attempts for correcting the issue (and those that have tried to rely on Ford Service Centers but have not been able to get the issue resolved by Ford). Some of these owners have even Lemon'd their S550 successfully OR are involved with the current process of the Lemon law.

Driveline vibe thread:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15990

At one point Kelly @ BMR had chimed in on that thread stating he was looking into possibilities of coming up with ideas for correcting the issue. (THANKS Kelly!!!)

We know that both BMR & Steeda have proven IRS components that are to "square" the IRS cradle. We also know they, as well as Ford Performance, Boomba, Maximum Motorsports and a multitude of other well known companies also offer multiple options regarding replacing factory rubber bushings with spherical bearings or Delrin bushings. Full Tilt Boogie Racing even has an excellent Fact sheet regarding how to adjust pinion angles on an IRS equipped Mustang.

There's various drivetrain companies that offer single 1-piece driveshafts in aluminum or carbon fiber.

There's various companies that offer upgraded rear half-shafts too.

Then we have the Ford SSM article #45938 that advises Ford Service Centers to place a hose clamp onto the driveshaft to balance it - THAT is Ford's solution. Even after folks have had the SSM corrective action completed, the driveline vibe RETURNS!!

With ALL of the above put aside - and folks trying this or that component from Vendor-X, or having the "SSM FIX" applied by a Ford Service Center, many have reported that the driveline vibe is either still present or has returned (if fixed at Ford Service Center).

My challenge to the Vendors is this:
Can you come up with a solid solution that will FIX the driveline vibration PERMANENTLY?

You all have VAST knowledge in this area, there HAS to be a way to resolve this issue once and for all.

Is it the angle of the engine/trans in relation to the driveshaft?
Is it the height variance or angles of the trans mount, engine mounts or center support bearing mount?
Is it the angle or mounting design of the pumpkin within the cradle?

This thread is intended to invoke positive and meaningful dialect to get ideas on how to fix the issue permanently and to stop the "band aiding". Obviously Ford's only solution is to throw hose clamps at the S550 and call it a day...

Ready, set, go!

SteedaTech · Jan 25, 2017

Cobra Jet said:
I don't need to get into the whole issue - as there is a gigantic thread that already details the issue. Many S550 owners have documented their frustrations after multiple attempts for correcting the issue (and those that have tried to rely on Ford Service Centers but have not been able to get the issue resolved by Ford). Some of these owners have even Lemon'd their S550 successfully OR are involved with the current process of the Lemon law.

Driveline vibe thread:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15990

At one point Kelly @ BMR had chimed in on that thread stating he was looking into possibilities of coming up with ideas for correcting the issue. (THANKS Kelly!!!)

We know that both BMR & Steeda have proven IRS components that are to "square" the IRS cradle. We also know they, as well as Ford Performance, Boomba, Maximum Motorsports and a multitude of other well known companies also offer multiple options regarding replacing factory rubber bushings with spherical bearings or Delrin bushings. Full Tilt Boogie Racing even has an excellent Fact sheet regarding how to adjust pinion angles on an IRS equipped Mustang.

There's various drivetrain companies that offer single 1-piece driveshafts in aluminum or carbon fiber.

There's various companies that offer upgraded rear half-shafts too.

Then we have the Ford SSM article #45938 that advises Ford Service Centers to place a hose clamp onto the driveshaft to balance it - THAT is Ford's solution. Even after folks have had the SSM corrective action completed, the driveline vibe RETURNS!!

With ALL of the above put aside - and folks trying this or that component from Vendor-X, or having the "SSM FIX" applied by a Ford Service Center, many have reported that the driveline vibe is either still present or has returned (if fixed at Ford Service Center).

My challenge to the Vendors is this:
Can you come up with a solid solution that will FIX the driveline vibration PERMANENTLY?

You all have VAST knowledge in this area, there HAS to be a way to resolve this issue once and for all.

Is it the angle of the engine/trans in relation to the driveshaft?
Is it the height variance or angles of the trans mount, engine mounts or center support bearing mount?
Is it the angle or mounting design of the pumpkin within the cradle?

This thread is intended to invoke positive and meaningful dialect to get ideas on how to fix the issue permanently and to stop the "band aiding". Obviously Ford's only solution is to throw hose clamps at the S550 and call it a day...

Ready, set, go!

If your vibration is between 50 and 70mph Our Steeda patented IRS braces have been a solution for most customers. Below is a link.

https://www.steeda.com/steeda-s550-mustang-rear-irs-subframe-brace-2015-coupe-555-5754.html

BMR Tech · Jan 25, 2017

The issue is not 100% specific to one individual area or part or issue.

What I have found, as I have been testing this for months now is that it can be from several issues. Many times it is a culmination of parts too.

What I have found to be true:

-S550 driveline angles are not very good. I am seeing pinion flange angles on these cars that shoot above the trans/engine angles.

-S550 pinion rise is significant. The fact that the pinion flange is angled higher than the engine angle...means that the "pinion angle" is even more positive under accel loads.

-S550 MT82 cars have this issue MUCH MORE frequently than the 6R80 Automatic cars. This can also be verified by the simple fact that the MT82 cars come with a giubo-joint / flex disc to mate the stock DS to the 3-Bolt tailshaft flange.

-S550 MT82 cars also have a much heavier DS than the Automatic versions.

-Halfshafts are also an issue. "Driveline Angles" are not necessarily the only cause for the S550 vibrations. I have experienced less vibrations on cars when upgrading to heavier halfshafts - on (4) cars here at BMR. Two of my own and 2 BMR cars.

-Making the IRS subframe more rigid, "CAN" help. In these cases, as Steeda mentioned above, I have found that this "fix" is typically based on the halfshafts creating vibration within the cradle...causing a slight washboard feeling in the rear of the car. On the contrary, often times firming the subframe up can result in a more noticeable vibration. Another issue, as mentioned above, can be the pinion rise. Firming up the IRS subframe can limit the pinion rise - which sometimes also helps out.

Personally, I would not suggest troubleshooting vibrations by adding more rigid chassis and suspension components.

What I have found to help with the vibrations on cars that seem to have the issue caused by the driveline angles are to adjust the pinion flange angle to where it is 1-2 degrees less than the transmission angle. To do this, you shim the front mounts of the rear subframe down. I have also tested shimming the transmission crossmember down as well.

This thread is ironic to me. I was thinking earlier this morning about making a thread about this and sharing my findings and the specifics of the shims I have used.

SteedaTech · Jan 25, 2017

Cobra Jet said:
I don't need to get into the whole issue - as there is a gigantic thread that already details the issue. Many S550 owners have documented their frustrations after multiple attempts for correcting the issue (and those that have tried to rely on Ford Service Centers but have not been able to get the issue resolved by Ford). Some of these owners have even Lemon'd their S550 successfully OR are involved with the current process of the Lemon law.

Driveline vibe thread:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15990

At one point Kelly @ BMR had chimed in on that thread stating he was looking into possibilities of coming up with ideas for correcting the issue. (THANKS Kelly!!!)

We know that both BMR & Steeda have proven IRS components that are to "square" the IRS cradle. We also know they, as well as Ford Performance, Boomba, Maximum Motorsports and a multitude of other well known companies also offer multiple options regarding replacing factory rubber bushings with spherical bearings or Delrin bushings. Full Tilt Boogie Racing even has an excellent Fact sheet regarding how to adjust pinion angles on an IRS equipped Mustang.

There's various drivetrain companies that offer single 1-piece driveshafts in aluminum or carbon fiber.

There's various companies that offer upgraded rear half-shafts too.

Then we have the Ford SSM article #45938 that advises Ford Service Centers to place a hose clamp onto the driveshaft to balance it - THAT is Ford's solution. Even after folks have had the SSM corrective action completed, the driveline vibe RETURNS!!

With ALL of the above put aside - and folks trying this or that component from Vendor-X, or having the "SSM FIX" applied by a Ford Service Center, many have reported that the driveline vibe is either still present or has returned (if fixed at Ford Service Center).

My challenge to the Vendors is this:
Can you come up with a solid solution that will FIX the driveline vibration PERMANENTLY?

You all have VAST knowledge in this area, there HAS to be a way to resolve this issue once and for all.

Is it the angle of the engine/trans in relation to the driveshaft?
Is it the height variance or angles of the trans mount, engine mounts or center support bearing mount?
Is it the angle or mounting design of the pumpkin within the cradle?

This thread is intended to invoke positive and meaningful dialect to get ideas on how to fix the issue permanently and to stop the "band aiding". Obviously Ford's only solution is to throw hose clamps at the S550 and call it a day...

Ready, set, go!

Phil, if you could give build date and specific drive train info would be helpful. For example the Eco - Boost has vibration frequency dampers at the rear upper sub frame. Thanks

Agent_S550 · Jan 25, 2017

I have to concur with Kelly on this one. He mentioned it to me on the phone the other day. I'm curious to see if someone will be able to document a success story on smoothing the drivetrain out on these cars.

Kelly, I know you offer the solid pinion bushing replacements. What would be the negatives of having a set that offered the ability to correct pinion angle? IE offset holes in the bushing assembly to remove the positive PA. At that point I know it would take some engineering to really get right, but I'm curious if its possible in theory.

Cobra Jet · Jan 25, 2017

SteedaTech said:
Phil, if you could give build date and specific drive train info would be helpful. For example the Eco - Boost has vibration frequency dampers at the rear upper sub frame. Thanks

2016 EB Premium w/Performance Package
Current Mileage: 19,197
Trans: 6R80
3:55 rear gears
Build date I believe was December 10, 2015 (looking at "Blend" info on window sticker); I took delivery Dec. 26 2015.
*No modifications to driveline, exhaust or suspension and currently still on PZeros too (*for warranty purposes).

Mine has been in multiple times for the issue since 1,900 miles, with the following "corrective fixes" having been performed:
1) Tires Road Force balanced numerous times
2) Original drive shaft was sent by Ford Dealer to be rebalanced
3) Original driveshaft reindexed (multiple times)
4) Front trans flange replaced
5) Driveshaft replaced
6) Rear pinion flange replaced
7) Trans mount replaced (I was told it was "broken", but I find it hard to believe @ 1,900 miles at the time - and believe it was misdiagnosis).
8) SSM procedure performed last time at Ford Service Center, so yes I am the recipient of an Official Ford Hose Clamp.

2007GT500 · Jan 25, 2017

2016 EB Premium w/Performance Package
Current Mileage: 753
6-speed manual transmission
The car was built in May of 2016
I purchased the car on December 26, 2016

The car has been to the dealer on so far for 8 days. They did the following work:

1. NVH Diagnosis
2. Road force balanced the wheels.
3. Replaced the DS as the original DS was out of spec by 0.048

The car originally vibrated from 50-70. After the new DS the vibration was from 55-65. I have not taken the car back to the dealership yet.

Tonight I installed the Steeda IRS braces. They did not cure the vibration. It is better only vibrating from 55-60 now.

I hope someone comes up with a solution because it does not appear Ford is going to.

wildcatgoal · Jan 25, 2017

Heavier halfshafts will of course reduce vibration - they're heavier - mass dampens vibration. Not a viable (affordable) fix for most people since they are so bleeding expensive, even if you need them. And, in theory, it could very well be the installation of a different half shaft (vs. a different half shaft) solved the issue due to an assembly variation at the factory (not likely, but could be). I should hope the stock halfshafts aren't in-and-of themselves a poor-tolerance product causal to this recurring issue, but given our body panel alignment...

The angle observations are interesting. What's also interesting is how much left to right and vertical play there is with the transmission mounting bracket design. I had a slight driveline vibration with my car - akin to a single unbalanced tire - comes then goes then comes then goes. (I later found those tires were balanced fine.) At one point I installed a shifter bracket and observed the play in the bracket and where it mounts. I decided to attempt to mount it with absolutely no weight on the bracket (transmission jacked to accommodate its weight) and as "centered" as I can visually achieve, which resulted in the bolts fixing at a different spot against their pressure points as they were stock (per the witness marks). I went for a drive after this excited to test out my first new part and eventually realized that vibration was gone...

Food for thought is all this is. Could have just been a freak chance that jacking the car up and fooling with things in the drive line, yada yada yada, ended up eliminating whatever it is that caused my issue. No idea...

SteedaTech · Jan 26, 2017

Cobra Jet said:
2016 EB Premium w/Performance Package
Current Mileage: 19,197
Trans: 6R80
3:55 rear gears
Build date I believe was December 10, 2015 (looking at "Blend" info on window sticker); I took delivery Dec. 26 2015.
*No modifications to driveline, exhaust or suspension and currently still on PZeros too (*for warranty purposes).

Mine has been in multiple times for the issue since 1,900 miles, with the following "corrective fixes" having been performed:
1) Tires Road Force balanced numerous times
2) Original drive shaft was sent by Ford Dealer to be rebalanced
3) Original driveshaft reindexed (multiple times)
4) Front trans flange replaced
5) Driveshaft replaced
6) Rear pinion flange replaced
7) Trans mount replaced (I was told it was "broken", but I find it hard to believe @ 1,900 miles at the time - and believe it was misdiagnosis).
8) SSM procedure performed last time at Ford Service Center, so yes I am the recipient of an Official Ford Hose Clamp.

2007GT500 said:
2016 EB Premium w/Performance Package
Current Mileage: 753
6-speed manual transmission
The car was built in May of 2016
I purchased the car on December 26, 2016

The car has been to the dealer on so far for 8 days. They did the following work:

1. NVH Diagnosis
2. Road force balanced the wheels.
3. Replaced the DS as the original DS was out of spec by 0.048

The car originally vibrated from 50-70. After the new DS the vibration was from 55-65. I have not taken the car back to the dealership yet.

Tonight I installed the Steeda IRS braces. They did not cure the vibration. It is better only vibrating from 55-60 now.

I hope someone comes up with a solution because it does not appear Ford is going to.

We have a Eco-Boost in our S550 test fleet in GA. I have our engineers looking into this and collaborating with others in regards to this concern. Most of our team is in Daytona this week, we should have some info by mid week. Keep you posted.

Rebellion · Jan 26, 2017

wildcatgoal said:
Heavier halfshafts will of course reduce vibration - they're heavier - mass dampens vibration. Not a viable (affordable) fix for most people since they are so bleeding expensive, even if you need them. And, in theory, it could very well be the installation of a different half shaft (vs. a different half shaft) solved the issue due to an assembly variation at the factory (not likely, but could be). I should hope the stock halfshafts aren't in-and-of themselves a poor-tolerance product causal to this recurring issue, but given our body panel alignment...

The angle observations are interesting. What's also interesting is how much left to right and vertical play there is with the transmission mounting bracket design. I had a slight driveline vibration with my car - akin to a single unbalanced tire - comes then goes then comes then goes. (I later found those tires were balanced fine.) At one point I installed a shifter bracket and observed the play in the bracket and where it mounts. I decided to attempt to mount it with absolutely no weight on the bracket (transmission jacked to accommodate its weight) and as "centered" as I can visually achieve, which resulted in the bolts fixing at a different spot against their pressure points as they were stock (per the witness marks). I went for a drive after this excited to test out my first new part and eventually realized that vibration was gone...

Food for thought is all this is. Could have just been a freak chance that jacking the car up and fooling with things in the drive line, yada yada yada, ended up eliminating whatever it is that caused my issue. No idea...

So, it went away with adjustment of the transmission mount?

You mean, the rubbery part with 3 bolts under the transmission housing that attaches to the transversal plate (cast piece).

wildcatgoal · Jan 26, 2017

Rebellion said:
So, it went away with adjustment of the transmission mount?

You mean, the rubbery part with 3 bolts under the transmission housing that attaches to the transversal plate (cast piece).

Correct. Again, could have been TOTAL CHANCE. But... wood for the fire. Don't get your hopes up...

Agent_S550 · Jan 26, 2017

wildcatgoal said:
Correct. Again, could have been TOTAL CHANCE. But... wood for the fire. Don't get your hopes up...

Well I wouldn't take anything away from your findings. It really just reiterates the importance of checking the alignment of the transmission and the driveshaft.

DANA44 · Jan 26, 2017

Why do the Eco - Boost have vibration frequency dampers at the rear upper sub frame?

Cobra Jet · Jan 26, 2017

Good discussions and I appreciate the professionalism of the Vendor replies as well!

Just to note for other readers:

The "vibe" is definitively NOT:
1) Road surface feedback via tires or suspension
2) Typical or to be expected vibes from "buzzy" EB engine
3) Exhaust resonance (stock or aftermarket)

The driveline vibe is best described as:
A) An oscillating "noise", kind of like a subwoofer reverberating at a very low frequency
B) Actual vibrations felt in trans tunnel/center console, floorpan, steering wheel, gas pedal and seat backs (or door panels if your arm is resting on it)
C) In extreme instances, it is as if the car is being driven over highway rumble strips
D) Is felt mostly between 48mph-70mph
E) Can be controlled by tip-in acceleration or deceleration in the above MPH range
F) Is still present if while driving the car, the Operator takes the trans out of a drive gear and places it into Neutral, letting car coast down into above noted speed range
G) Remains present regardless of geographic weather temp or seasonal conditions
H) Below 48mph or in some instances 40mph there is absolutely no vibration; some have claimed the same @65mph +

There are quite a few members who have reported in the huge linked thread that they have actually tried a single 1-piece aftermarket driveshaft with no conditional changes (even after reindexing the new DS) and those who have installed Vendor-X's upgraded IRS "squaring parts", still with no change where the vibe is persistent.

Now also to note for the Vendors:
Some members vehicles were denied service at some Ford Service Centers because the owner had installed certain IRS upgrades. Now we know that *shouid not happen unless the problem can be DIRECTLY related to the Customer complaint* - BUT it IS happening, as a few members have documented the instance. So there's many of us who DO want to purchase your IRS parts - BUT, when the car is being taken in for this specific vibration concern, it's very easy for a Ford Service Center to say "see, THIS (insert upgraded IRS part here) is causing the vibration" - AND they won't look further into the real genuine concern. That is why I have not touched the exhaust, the suspension, etc., because in order to keep Ford Service looking into the concern, if one thing is modified from stock they'll use that as an out...

Keep the discussion going - everybody work as a Team.

I also was not aware that the EB has specific rear freq. subframe dampeners for the IRS - any pics??

Bluemustang · Jan 26, 2017

Forgive me if this comes across as rude but,
Is this really a major issue?
If so, it is really worth it to put in all this work to resolve it that it would not be better to just get a new car of a different make?

I've had little drivetrain vibrations before with this car but it never bothered me one bit.

Just trying to add a bit of sanity to the madness. But that said I hope someone finds the issue so those who have it bad can be rid of it.

Driveline vibe: Has any vendor come up with a solution?

Cobra Jet

Well-Known Member

SteedaTech

Well-Known Member

BMR Tech

Well-Known Member

SteedaTech

Well-Known Member

Agent_S550

Legend in his own mind

Cobra Jet

Well-Known Member

2007GT500

Well-Known Member

wildcatgoal

@sirboom_photography

SteedaTech

Well-Known Member

Rebellion

Well-Known Member

wildcatgoal

@sirboom_photography

Agent_S550

Legend in his own mind

DANA44

Well-Known Member

Cobra Jet

Well-Known Member

Bluemustang

Well-Known Member