Why doesn't Ford just produce more GT350's? - Some light reading for the Newbs

This topic has been covered in nauseam throughout so many different threads. Maybe worth a sticky but at least for those who just arrived to the party should at least read before saying... "Why doesn't Ford just make more GT350's?" Maybe some education on what we know in one post/thread will keep the nonsense out of other threads.

What happens beyond 2018 is anyone's guess but Ford has a proven strategy which all indications are they will execute that strategy yet again. Ford has told the dealers they will get allocations for 2016 & 2017 beyond that is anyone's guess. But history does set the course of which they (Ford) reference in recent interviews or statements.



Multiple Sources:

Jim Owens, Shelby Brand Manager for Ford stated in a recent interview.

Speaking of the Boss 302, Jim was asked about the production-number rumors floating around the Internet. He didn’t give an exact figure, but he did put the projected numbers in context with the last couple of high-performance production Mustangs.

“I would say it would be safe in saying it would be somewhere in between the Boss 302 and the GT500,” Jim said. “I wouldn’t be surprised if the R was akin to the Boss 302 Laguna Seca—if I get my way.”

It was also stated and heard by some members of this forum that two Shelby models will not be produced simultaneously. One will end production while the other begins.



Below was posted in an article which coincides with what Jim Owens stated in the interview referenced above.

2016 Shelby GT350 Mustang Production Numbers

According to the now-removed Facebook post, production of the 2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 will be limited to 5,000 units, while the higher performance Shelby GT350R Mustang will be limited to just 500 units. In the grand scheme of things, 5,500 cars might not seem like very many examples of the new Shelby Mustang, but if Ford sells all 5,500 Shelby GT350 units during the 2016 model year, it will be far more successful (in terms of sales) than the previous generation Boss 302 or Shelby GT500.

In searching around the internet, it looks as though the common annual Boss 302 production totals indicate that Ford sold 4,016 Boss Mustangs in 2012 and 4,273 Boss Mustangs in 2013. Of those units sold in 2012, 3,249 were the standard Boss 302 while the other 767 were the higher performance Laguna Seca package and in 2013, 3,526 were the Boss 302 while 747 were fitted with the Laguna Seca package.

Based on those figures, Ford plans to build significantly more 2016 Shelby GT350 Mustangs than they did 2012 or 2013 Boss 302 Mustangs, but the company plans to build significantly less of the higher performance GT350R models when compared to the 2012 and 2013 Boss 302 Laguna Seca Mustang.

It should also be noted that during the 2012 and 2013 model years, prospective Mustang buyers could also pick the pricier and more powerful Shelby GT500 Mustang. Ford sold 4,834 examples of the GT500 in 2012 and another 4,885 in 2013, so when you add those figures to the production numbers of the 2012 and 2013 Boss 302, Ford sold a total of 8,850 high performance Mustangs in 2012 and 9,158 in 2013.


Thanks Five Oh Brian:

Five Oh Brian said:

If anyone cares, dealers can not order as many GT350's as they want; we are limited to the allocations that Ford gives us. For example, my dealer gets just two '16 GT350's for the entire 2016 model year. Each dealer has been told by Ford how many they get. Add up the allocations for each dealer and you'd almost have the entire production expectation - almost.

Ford doesn't allocate the entire model year's production upfront. They keep a reserve (probably a few hundred in the GT350's case) unallocated for later use in case a car is scrapped at the factory, destroyed in transit, lost in a natural disaster while awaiting shipment to the dealer, etc. As the model year progresses, especially near the very end of the model year, Ford will start to allocate what's left of the reserve.

Some historical examples from my dealership: in 2006 we were told we'd get 5 '07 GT500's. We got a 6th one allocated to us at the end of the model year. In 2012, we were allocated 3 '12 Boss 302's and got only the 3, yet in 2013 we were only allocated 2 '13 Boss 302's, yet managed to get an additional allocation near the end of the model year. So, sometimes extra allocation is there to hand out, sometimes it isn't.

Bosses, Shelbys, and SVT's have always been allocated. Other SE's (Mach 1's, Bullitts, & GT/CS's) were not. Allocated cars typically don't see big upticks in production beyond the initial allocation. Oh sure, additional model years may come about (like the GT500's being offered from 2007-2014 instead of the initial few years originally anticipated). But, the annual production numbers typically don't go up much, if any.

I've worked at the same Ford dealership for 16 years and have been involved and doing the ordering for our Mustangs, SVT's, and Shelbys that whole time. Ford is quite predictable in how they'll handle the GT350's for 2016 & 2017 based on what they told us when we signed up for the program and what they've done in the past with similar models. What isn't as easy to predict is what Ford will do after 2017; will they continue offering GT350's or will another model replace it? We can only speculate about the 2018's and beyond.

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Make no mistake this is about selling more Mustangs:

Always has..always will..sure there are bragging rights and racing but those don't pay the bills or the shareholders. You have to remember what Ford gets out of this on the business side and that is increased sales on the entire Mustang line. That is demonstrated every time a SE (Special Edition) model debuts with any manufacturer.

Recent case in point when the Hellcat came out Challenger sales increased 27% on an old platform no less. Dodge even stated this in an interview by stating they wanted young America to get excited about Dodge again.

They sold 128K Mustangs in '15..watch it jump...SE cars build excitement in the line and with potential buyers. As we know not everyone can obtain or afford a GT350 most of whom are not even on these forums.





Production Challenges:

Indications of "material holds" seem to indicate already of parts availability issues.

• Hand built single purpose engine
• Carbon Fiber wheels (R model) outsourced
• Many dedicated GT350 parts produced elsewhere than the assembly location
• Dedicated production line of 6-8 vehicles produced per day as reported by a Ford employee in this forum
• Stripes?
• Spoilers?

If anyone has more facts or points to educate the mass I will happily add to the OP. Point those that need to read the facts back to this thread so we can stay on topic in other threads.

For those that just want to deny reality and speculate something different ...well sorry:shrug:...the sane folks are not listening.

Bump this to the top. Some bad info still being circulated. Again as more information comes to light with sources I will update the OP.

Artificial scarcity is really all it boils down to, just like nearly any other limited run vehicle.

The OP here is correct in that the initial projection of 5,500 GT350s at these price levels is quite likely to be all they need to build. That number will be adjusted northward should sales warrant, you can bet the farm on that one. The car is new, fresh, and great looking. It is however far from the overwhelming majority of Mustang guys "dream car" sporting 137 fewer ponies than the most recent GT500. Horsepower and straight line acceleration is first and foremost with the lions share of Mustangers and Pony Car fans in general.

Hopefully the GT350 will have a first year that is every bit as robust in the sales department as the GT500 was in its first year. This would appear to be a well balanced, SVT level offering.

Anyone who thinks that the "hand built" nature of this engine is a limiting factor is obviously a novice here and ignorant of the fact that Ford hand built 11,000 GT500 motors and more to be sold through Ford Racing in '07. Building engines, by hand or robotic is not a problem for a corporation the size of Ford, non factor.

high_glove_side said:

Artificial scarcity is really all it boils down to, just like nearly any other limited run vehicle.

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The R really does have a limit because of Carbon Fiber wheel production capacity. The same goes for the Voodoo Engine production across both models. They can only make so many of each without additional investments in supply and production capacity. The cost of bringing that capacity online to produce more units could outweigh the benefits of selling more GT350s. Bringing more capacity online might not even be a realistic option.

If someone is willing to pay the $65,000 for one, fucking make them one. I'm not playing fords bullshit games. Done waiting and looking.

Satan said:

If someone is willing to pay the $65,000 for one, fucking make them one. I'm not playing fords bullshit games. Done waiting and looking.

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Unfortunately, the manufacturing process doesn't work like that. There are agreements between Ford and it's suppliers that dictate the number of cars they can build. I'm sure they built in some additional capacity, but we don't even know the base number they plan to build.

Just because you and I want one there are real limits as to what they can make.

There are no limits. They are making money or else they wouldn't be doing it.

Satan said:

There are no limits. They are making money or else they wouldn't be doing it.

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says the person with NO knowledge of the automobile manufacturing (and supplier based manufacturing) industry......

Yes, there are limits. Keep in mind though, that Ford sets them to an extent. They come to a supplier (like the one I work for) and say "we're sending you an RFQ for widget X, which we'll buy 5000/yr for 5 years". The selected supplier then goes about developing a production system and supply base to support that request (and, if they're smart, add a little wiggle room).

Ford then later on says "we want to add widget X to another model, do you have the production capacity to add 1500/yr to the current volume?". Or, variation is to request a study to find out what our max capacity is and see how that fits with their plans.

So, yes, there are practical limits - especially for niche cars like the GT350 that make use of specialty parts that come from small, niche suppliers. The limits are in the supply chain, not in how many Ford is willing to assemble, but that whole supply chain is scaled based on Ford's forecast.

To be fair, though, that forecast is typically based on how many that they think will be sold, not (with the rare exception) out of a desire to artificially limit availability. Of course, that does happen with on occasion (say the 1964 car run of 50th LE's). But mostly, its about trying to sort out how many can be sold at a desired price point without having many left over, sitting on lots. Matching the supply to the expected demand, more or less. And that's always a moving target. Usually that's based on similar models - the analogy of Boss & GT500 sales is a good baseline.

If they find that they completely underestimated the demand, well, that's when they run back to supply base and establish how much the supply capacity can be turned up. Case in point, when we first quoted our widget-T for the F-150 Raptor (which was a largely unprecedented vehicle), the original planned volume was in the ballpark of 8000 trucks for 2 years, IIRC. Well, that doubled and Ford worked hard to get the volume up to meet demand, and they largely sold every one they could build. Adding a few thousand units production to run might sound minor, but to a niche supplier that employees a dozen people, its huge. At Ford Carlisle this past year, the Ford rep/pitch guy essentially said that they'd build as many GT350s as demand called for after the '16MY production started. But again, its a moving target.

Mustang1260 said:

says the person with NO knowledge of the automobile manufacturing (and supplier based manufacturing) industry......

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Are you trying to tell me, there really isnt an "easy" button to pop out as many GT350s as ford execs wish?

likeaboss said:

The R really does have a limit because of Carbon Fiber wheel production capacity. The same goes for the Voodoo Engine production across both models. They can only make so many of each without additional investments in supply and production capacity. The cost of bringing that capacity online to produce more units could outweigh the benefits of selling more GT350s. Brining more capacity might not even be a realistic option.

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You bring up a good point about the wheels.. whether this car actually 'needs' CF wheels for anything other than wow factor is a different argument I suppose (or, to put it another way, would this car be any less desirable with forged wheels? I'd say no). They certainly could make more of these cars, but that would drive down value of them as time went on.

Naturally, the price alone will be a limiting factor in these cars, but for individuals out there who have the cash for one and are simply told 'no', it comes across as bad business practice.

I suppose it's a matter of leveraging human nature, and our sense of worth in scarcity.

EXP Jawa said:

Yes, there are limits....

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Good post, some angles in there I didn't think about.

high_glove_side said:

but for individuals out there who have the cash for one and are simply told 'no', it comes across as bad business practice.

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But that isn't really what they're doing, or at least not what they're trying to do. Rather, they're attempting make just enough so that each of those individuals that has the cash one can get one, without overrunning the supply.

When you have a model line that sells 100k+ a year, within a company that has other model lines that sell 7-800k per year, trying to establish the market for niche, sub-variant of something that will only sell a few thousand of is tricky. It becomes very precise in comparison to the normal business model.

I promise you that (for the most part), Ford does not want to turn away customers with cash in their hands - especially ones that might jump into a Hellcat or a Z06. But they also don't want to overbuild. So, if they establish a planned volume, it is typically based on what they think the market will support.

Mustang1260 said:

says the person with NO knowledge of the automobile manufacturing (and supplier based manufacturing) industry......

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Weird. I work for a manufacturing company that sells trillions of dollars worth of product annually. They keep supplying more for the demand of more. Pretty simple thought there.