ZL1 1LE

thePill said:

The Alpha the Camaro uses is a pretty bad deal. It is an absolutely awful design and as soon as I can put nails in coffin, trust me, I've got lots of hammers. If this design was good the CYS or ATS Coupe would have used it to save even more weight. Look at the metal the ATS Coupe uses. That's the only naked eye observation I can share with you.

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You don't suppose that Cadillac customers might be a bit fussier about NVH now, do you? It's quite possible to add reinforcement that chases vibration modes off to locations/frequencies that are less annoying without adding much to the overall chassis stiffness.

Where would the Camaros be weightwise with respect to EPA weight breaks, with vs without these panels? Don't underestimate the pressure to end up at the top of the next lower weight category rather than at the bottom of a category you didn't try hard enough to get out of.

Perhaps Car and Driver should run a Camaro and a Mustang on the K&C rig that they ran an S197 on a few years back.


Norm

JohnZiraldo said:

Anyone who thinks a car forum should aspire to be something like a scientific forum on physics and cosmology should give their head a shake.

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Nor need they be soapboxes with a ton more leeway given for bashing another make that wouldn't be given if the topic was V8 vs V6 or MT vs AT strictly within-house.

If the Camaro was as bad as ThePill is trying to make it out to be, it shouldn't be 1g-capable. Only time will tell whether it turns out to be durable when used to that level. Not because of internet opinions today that don't have the kind of substantiation none of us are ever likely to be privy to (or what would get you fired if you did and leaked it out publicly).

Car forums are little more than a meeting place for gear heads and hot-rodders who refuse to let the 60s die. We didn't know shit about what we were saying back then, but we enjoyed the hell out of 'proving' our favorite car was better than the other guy's. We also liked to argue about our politics, our religion, and our sports teams, with even less scientific proof.

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I was around back then myself, and there was plenty of back and forth banter. But nobody was really as serious about it as the same words posted over the internet come off as being. Or as dyed-in-the-wool negative about the competition.

Maybe back then there was a heavier 'traditional hot-rodding' content, which pretty much flew in the face of blind brand-loyalty. And in that vein, no mfr had - or has now - all the best answers to the same problems. Just a different mix.


Norm

Voodooo said:

I think I'm about to retire from this complete forum as a whole. It's getting old and I'm loosing interest.

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Are you taking your car to the track this season?

Norm Peterson said:

I was around back then myself, and there was plenty of back and forth banter. But nobody was really as serious about it as the same words posted over the internet come off as being. Or as dyed-in-the-wool negative about the competition.



Norm

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Its a forum thing. I'm at the drag strip at least once a week and there is no animosity. Ford, Chevy, 4 banger tuners. There all there for the same thing. Things that get said on forums would get you punched in the face in real life. Forums are just a way for bored people to kill time at work.

bluebeastsrt said:

Its a forum thing. I'm at the drag strip at least once a week and there is no animosity. Ford, Chevy, 4 banger tuners. There all there for the same thing. Things that get said on forums would get you punched in the face in real life. Forums are just a way for bored people to kill time at work.

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Haha. This is too true...

When I go to the track I love talking to the Mustang and Challenger guys. No disrespect to any of them. We're all gear heads who love american muscle in one way or another.

...and laughing at the kid with a stock 98 Civic EX who thinks his fart can mobile is fast, because, you know, vtec. ;)

bluebeastsrt said:

Its a forum thing. I'm at the drag strip at least once a week and there is no animosity. Ford, Chevy, 4 banger tuners. There all there for the same thing. Things that get said on forums would get you punched in the face in real life. Forums are just a way for bored people to kill time at work.

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So true, I'm killing time at work right now, Lol

Childs Play said:

No where in that entire rant does it say anything about not running right...

It had a cosmetic issue and they curbed the car and refused to acknowledge it.

Learn to read.

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A brand new car with vibration/shimmy issues is a car that is not running correctly. I expect more from my cars I imagine. That is why I stay away from gm.

68fbjjz109 said:

Are you taking your car to the track this season?

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That's the plan. Along with my bike.

richtor said:

A brand new car with vibration/shimmy issues is a car that is not running correctly. I expect more from my cars I imagine. That is why I stay away from gm.

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Once again. Learn to read. Car had Shimmy issue wasn't there until dealership messed up the car. The car was fine till they messed it up at around 30,000 miles.

Was only trying to defend why Voodooo did the work to his car himself instead of letting a dealership touch it, yet you still have to type away like a douche canoe even on me giving an example of why people hate dealerships for every manufacturer. Yet apparently even showing support to someone on the Mustang forum is grounds for some moron to figure out how to bash something. My bad for trying to actually be supportive of a situation and telling my story. Then you got Voodooo liking the post even though I was being supportive directly to him. Awesome. Sorry for trying to be nice and supportive for a change.

All brands have recalls, issues and questionable dealerships sprinkled in.

I'm done with this thread. It's ran it's course and is so far off topic now anyway.

We're done.