For all the '18 10 speed versus 6 speed manual debates

jasonstang · Mar 28, 2017

Mustang1260 said:
*Ignoring the track crap-- sorry but to be realistic 99% of Mustang owners never get near a track of any sort-- the real story will be how much 'gear hunting' will the 10 sp do when driving around town or on the freeway (stuck in commute traffic).

Many a modern 6 sp auto (not just Ford) seem to go nuts bouncing all over the dial when in the 25-40mph zone...

Taller 1st and closer ratio the rest will be a lot better.

Boss Man · Mar 28, 2017

Mustang1260 said:
*Ignoring the track crap-- sorry but to be realistic 99% of Mustang owners never get near a track of any sort-- the real story will be how much 'gear hunting' will the 10 sp do when driving around town or on the freeway (stuck in commute traffic).

Many a modern 6 sp auto (not just Ford) seem to go nuts bouncing all over the dial when in the 25-40mph zone...

I've not noticed this hunting around with my 8 speed auto. Not sure on all the driving modes the mustang will have, I would expect a sports mode, sports + or track mode to curb the gear hunting and force it to hold gear through higher rpms. Worse case is one would have to switch into manual mode and control gear and shift points.

Asharus · Mar 29, 2017

i'll take a ZL1 camaro with either transmission. i'll make an exception and turn in my man card for that beast.

thehunterooo · Mar 29, 2017

Boss Man said:
I've not noticed this hunting around with my 8 speed auto. Not sure on all the driving modes the mustang will have, I would expect a sports mode, sports + or track mode to curb the gear hunting and force it to hold gear through higher rpms. Worse case is one would have to switch into manual mode and control gear and shift points.

My girly auto does not hunt for gears in any mode.

RocketGuy3 · Mar 29, 2017

kapiteinlangzaam said:
I dont care how fast the A10 is / will be.

Drivng a stick V8 is at least 1/2 the fun of the whole experience.

If I wanted to play Gran Turismo (which is what itll feel like, IMO), id have bought a GTR or similar.

You can buy a sim racing setup even for Forza and Gran Turismo that will allow you to shift with a stick. ;)

Fordever · Mar 29, 2017

I really don't care which is better or faster. I keep buying manuals because I don't know how to drive an auto. :shrug:

Asharus · Mar 29, 2017

[ame]

TexArmageddon · Mar 29, 2017

golfstang said:
Put both of them on the Nurburgring. Either one could be 10 seconds faster than the other on any given lap. There's just too many variables...

People want to point out a difference of a less than half a second. REALLY? That could literally be one improper rev match going into a corner. That could be one small kick out of the ass end.

There are facts: the a10 shifts in milliseconds, and humans cannot physically pull a lever and stomp the clutch that fast. The manual is more connect/engaging/whatever. Bottom line: the two cars are pretty damn similar

When there's a difference of more than a second over a 50 lap average, color me impressed. Until then we are arguing with brick walls.

Your facts are wrong... Humans shift in MS... Either be completely detailed or None at all Sir.

5pointOh · Mar 30, 2017

TexArmageddon said:
Your facts are wrong... Humans shift in MS... Either be completely detailed or None at all Sir.

His facts arent wrong, he said computers shift in milliseconds which is faster than any human.... Typical human can complete an upshift somewhere between 500ms-1sec while a performance DSG or Auto can complete the same action in ~6-8ms, even the ZF 8 speed does it in ~230m. Most humans average around ~1 sec to shift. Even the fastest human at 500ms is still slower than any modern automatic.

Norm Peterson · Mar 30, 2017

ForYourOwnGood said:
IMO I would get a GT in manual but if I bought another ecoboost automatic all the way. The A6 seems to match really well with the turbo 4, I imagine the A10 will be really nice. I never drove the automatic before I bought my car but if I had I would have gotten it for sure, first time in my life I preferred the auto to the stick.

I'm not surprised. Especially in moderate street driving when upshifts are not being hurried (either by you or by TCM logic and line pressures), turbochargers prefer that you don't lift your foot off the throttle. I've felt that turbos were best matched to an AT for a whole lot longer than I've owned a turbo'ed car.

Norm

Norm Peterson · Mar 30, 2017

Mustang1260 said:
*Ignoring the track crap-- sorry but to be realistic 99% of Mustang owners never get near a track of any sort-- the real story will be how much 'gear hunting' will the 10 sp do when driving around town or on the freeway (stuck in commute traffic).

Many a modern 6 sp auto (not just Ford) seem to go nuts bouncing all over the dial when in the 25-40mph zone...

Or it could aggressively upshift into a gear that any enthusiast with a drop of performance driving blood in his veins would consider sluggish/unresponsive. 3rd or 4th gear before you've cleared the intersection when you were first in line kind of stuff - two or three upshifts in the first 50 or 60 feet.

Norm

bluebeastsrt · Mar 30, 2017

5pointOh said:
His facts arent wrong, he said computers shift in milliseconds which is faster than any human.... Typical human can complete an upshift somewhere between 500ms-1sec while a performance DSG or Auto can complete the same action in ~6-8ms, even the ZF 8 speed does it in ~230m. Most humans average around ~1 sec to shift. Even the fastest human at 500ms is still slower than any modern automatic.

True. Technology does everything faster than us. The computer with all of it's sensors. Can out think us and have the transmission in a better gear. Than we could do by processing what we see and feel. It'll shift faster than us.:shrug:It's not the 70's anymore.

Norm Peterson · Mar 30, 2017

bluebeastsrt said:
True. Technology does everything faster than us. The computer with all of it's sensors. Can out think us and have the transmission in a better gear. Than we could do by processing what we see and feel. It'll shift faster than us.:shrug:

But it won't make you one bit better as a driver if transmission technology lets you lop half a second (maybe only 0.2 seconds like in R.P.'s case) off your previous personal best. You'd only kidding yourself to think that you had anything to do with that new PB.

It's not the 70's anymore.

IOW, don't bother even trying to make yourself a better driver. Just give in and give up.

Norm

bluebeastsrt · Mar 30, 2017

Norm Peterson said:
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But it won't make you one bit better as a driver if transmission technology lets you lop half a second (maybe only 0.2 seconds like in R.P.'s case) off your previous personal best. You'd only kidding yourself to think that you had anything to do with that new PB.

I don't road race anymore. So that wouldn't matter to me. I'm also pretty sure that will matter very little to the guy standing in the winners circle who was 0.2 seconds faster a lap. But between you and me. If I were to take up road racing again. I'd choice a manual. Just because I wouldn't have to relearn how to drive with the paddles. I'm not the fastest guy at the drag strip. I wouldn't have a problem being that same guy at a road course.

jasonstang · Mar 30, 2017

5pointOh said:
His facts arent wrong, he said computers shift in milliseconds which is faster than any human.... Typical human can complete an upshift somewhere between 500ms-1sec while a performance DSG or Auto can complete the same action in ~6-8ms, even the ZF 8 speed does it in ~230m. Most humans average around ~1 sec to shift. Even the fastest human at 500ms is still slower than any modern automatic.

True but your torque converter is gonna lose about 5-10% horsepower.
A DSG is very quick.

For all the '18 10 speed versus 6 speed manual debates

jasonstang

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Boss Man

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Asharus

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thehunterooo

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RocketGuy3

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Fordever

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Asharus

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TexArmageddon

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5pointOh

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Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter

bluebeastsrt

Oh boy

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter

bluebeastsrt

Oh boy

jasonstang

Well-Known Member