Benefits of caster camber plates?

I want to learn more about caster camber plates. I have lowered my car with FRPP track springs and as a result, the geometry of the car has changed from stock. I do have camber bolts in there to correct the excessive negative camber in the front and a bumpsteer kit to address the bumpsteer effect.

My caster is more positive than stock, in the 8.0 range versus the stock spec of 7.12. Would reducing my caster make a difference in the geometry?

What benefits could I see from caster camber plates? Or is it just more adjustment kind of thing and I don't need it. I got to thinking that I could use this to dial in my front suspension better with this. Thoughts?

Just more adjustment without slotting the sheet metal.

From what i've seen, caster adjustment isn't really required on the S550. Camber is a different story. Using a camber plate is WAY better than using the camber bolts for strength and consistency. If you're short on funds though and just can't afford camber plates, the bolts are very cheap but you get what you pay for. It seems like if you lower your car 1", the most you can pull the camber in on the front is about -2*. I've had mine there for a while now with no additional wear on the tires.

At some point, I will get the Steeda camber plates because I've like to pull my camber in another .5*. Notice their plates are camber, not caster camber, I think that alone says a lot. If the caster adjustment was needed, I'm sure they would have made the plates that way.

I'm thinking more a long the lines of dialing in my steering. My steering is little twitchy or busy. But a lot that may be due to my stiff suspension and/or my tires being worn unevenly. My tires are stock 18" Pirelli A/S with almost 20K miles on them. At my last maintenance check up my shop said my tires are starting to go and he recommended getting new rubber fairly soon.

The bumpsteer is gone (where the car steers itself without intervention through the steering wheel) but I get some excessive feedback through steering wheel going over road imperfections. Therefore it requires some effort to keep it straight sometimes.

I was wondering whether dialing my front end geometry in better if it would help that. It could be just a characteristic of this car and the stiff suspension allows more forces to be transmitted directly to the steering wheel. It's not really bad but it's enough that you notice it. I don't know if the steering is more precise now with the Steeda bumpsteer kit that I feel it more than I did with the stock tie rods.

Maybe dialing in less caster and camber would help or perhaps not.

Not really for the twitchy steering. That is most likely going to be your tires. Caster should be fine and not sure what your camber is but like I mentioned, if you're lowered 1" they should have been able to pull the camber in to -2*. That certainly wouldn't cause twitchy steering. It's amazing what better tires will do.

If your steering is twitchy, you need to look at your alignment. The wrong toe settings on my car will make my car twitchy. I run minimum toe given I tend to have much more than factory camber and I'd like the tire to last more than 10 minutes, but it's a fine balance to make sure, given I tend to prefer harder-sidewall ties, keeping it not twitchy.

A firm front spring rate and/or firm front sway bar setting can also contribute, especially with a harder sidewall tire and regardless of if you have fancy aftermarket shocks.

Caster adjustment on the S550 isn't necessary - there is a ton of it already, by design for a strong on-center, wheels straight feel (translation: driver confidence, really). The caster plates I looked at simple allow for some very small, I'd say almost meaningless, adjustment by making the camber slots wider than the bolt that goes through them.

I have Steeda camber plates, having tried another brand's prior and having a terrible experience. Maximum Motorsports or, if you have the money, Vorshlag are good options, too. With a camber plates, when you adjust camber, the ENTIRE strut structure moves, eliminating any worry about losing wheel-to-strut clearance (since they move in unison). You also get much more camber range - I think with mine I can go to -3.2 or something close to that. If you use a camber bolt or slot the strut, the wheel does not move in unison with the camber change (strut assembly and knuckle), so you actually make the tire closer to the strut assembly, which can be problematic if you have wide tires or close offsets. Camber plates are also the stronger of the options to add camber adjustment (vs. bolts and slotting a strut). I have seen first hand slotted struts slip slightly (not a lot) from a rough autocross course, let alone a road course with those vibrating curbs.

Thanks [MENTION=21494]wildcatgoal[/MENTION] , that was a great explanation. I have a very high level knowledge of it and vague idea but couldn't hope to go into that much detail. Now if I could only remember it. :doh:

[MENTION=19599]Bluemustang[/MENTION] , isn't your toe in the front 0? You just had an alignment done right? I would sure hope they got the toe, that's like alignment 101.

No my toe alignment settings are good so it's not that. And my camber is in good spec so I am thinking I don't really need CC plates of small caster adjustments are meaningless.

I think it is just a factor of tires and the stiff suspension that I have on this car. I have a lot of steering feedback and I think that it just what it is. I'm going to be getting Michelin PSS when the weather warms up for good along with some RTR Tech 7 wheels.

Seems like the CC plates aren't really necessary at all for me and would be a waste of money. So I'm just gonna use that to buy other stuff that I want.

Different toe settings on my car lead to a notably different "twitchiness" feel. Don't underestimate experimenting with toe and the affects it can have.

wildcatgoal said:

Different toe settings on my car lead to a notably different "twitchiness" feel. Don't underestimate experimenting with toe and the affects it can have.

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Right now I have about 0.05 front toe on both sides.

wildcatgoal said:

Different toe settings on my car lead to a notably different "twitchiness" feel. Don't underestimate experimenting with toe and the affects it can have.

Click to expand...

What are you running for toe? All of the recommendations I've seen for total front toe is 0.

0 toe could be called "twitchy". Its not nearly as much of a handful pn the highway as toe out. If eliminating twitchiness is your goal you could definitely look to more toe in.

I recently went from 0.12 total toe in to 0 and it was very noticeable.

I think my "issue" comes down to just feeling the road more (i.e. steering feedback) more akin to a race car than a normal passenger car. I've touched almost my entire suspension with aftermarket pieces and as an effect, road forces are being transmitted more into the steering. And quite possibly worn, narrow tires doesn't help either. I'm betting new tires will make a significant difference.

It sounded like what [MENTION=19599]Bluemustang[/MENTION] was talking about was related to twitchiness over road imperfections. I know I've seen dramatic improvement in that using better tires. I'm surprised nobody is agreeing with that.

So regarding the toe, what is recommended? Everything I read had front total toe at 0. [MENTION=19933]NightmareMoon[/MENTION] did you go back to 0.12 total toe? That is better in your opinion? [MENTION=21494]wildcatgoal[/MENTION] what are you running and what would you recommend? It sounds like Bluemustang is already running 0.10 total toe and is experiencing the issue.

jbailer said:

It sounded like what [MENTION=19599]Bluemustang[/MENTION] was talking about was related to twitchiness over road imperfections. I know I've seen dramatic improvement in that using better tires. I'm surprised nobody is agreeing with that.

So regarding the toe, what is recommended? Everything I read had front total toe at 0. [MENTION=19933]NightmareMoon[/MENTION] did you go back to 0.12 total toe? That is better in your opinion? [MENTION=21494]wildcatgoal[/MENTION] what are you running and what would you recommend? It sounds like Bluemustang is already running 0.10 total toe and is experiencing the issue.

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Yes twitchiness over road imperfections but not bumpsteer because it goes where my wheel is pointing and highway expansions and dips are non issues. My tires are doneskie I think. I've put 20,000 hard miles on them. I've had multiple repairs for nails in my tires- oh yeah. Theyre about done.

Just deciding whether I want just new tires or new wheels too. Ideally I'd like to run summer tires when it's warm and keep my stock rims to put all seasons back on for the winter. But that gets expensive. 2 grand for new wheels and tires and the another 500-700 for new all seasons when the next winter comes round. God damn you Mustang. Why do you have to be so nice that you make me spend all my money.