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GT350 on the ring
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Heretoford
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fantastic video. definitely a great demonstration of how 'speed happens.' Driver is so relaxed, until the very end.
..Passenger -- get a helmet, thats crazy.
..Passenger -- get a helmet, thats crazy.
Stevefreestyle
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Thanks for clarifing that Matt, I supose there is a big benefit in having a LHD car in the UK if you enjoy regular European grand Touring (in style!!).
Really appreciated the Vids (especially the "exhaust" vid), and very nice driving !!
Stevefreestyle
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Like you I am not a fan of supercharged cars (& and even less Turbo lag), and love the "arms race", however notwithstanding no shortage of "informed" speculation, we do not know what Ford have planned in response to the new Corvette, and a viable replacement for the Shelby 662Hp GT500. (although personally, I would probably prefer the GT350)
Remember this?....[ame]
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^^ wow, the car was a handful and looks to have been muscled around the track. Big balls on that driver for sure. Nice time.
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TxOilMoney
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It's enough to give you "Ring Fever". Way cool.
gt350recon
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NĂĽrburgring and Spa-Francorchamps badgeIt would be a badge of honor to show-off your "Nurburgring stripe" to friends and relatives.
aex90832
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13 May Green Hell
[MENTION=18204]lemers[/MENTION], I think I saw your Facebook event on the local Mustang group. I should be there with the GT. If by some miracle my buddy's Grabber GT350 gets here in time, he'll be there as well! I've only done 5 previous laps, and this will be the first in the new ride.
[MENTION=29602]gt350recon[/MENTION], hope you can make it?
[MENTION=18204]lemers[/MENTION], I think I saw your Facebook event on the local Mustang group. I should be there with the GT. If by some miracle my buddy's Grabber GT350 gets here in time, he'll be there as well! I've only done 5 previous laps, and this will be the first in the new ride.
[MENTION=29602]gt350recon[/MENTION], hope you can make it?
lemers
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Im excited i cant wait
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sublime1996525
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That is awesom man!!
Caballus
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There have been a lot of great write ups about the Nürburgring Nordschleife, to include the one on this thread. So much so, that I didn’t intend to write anything about my recent experience. No need to talk about the car; that’s been covered, and my driving skills don’t compare to GT350Recon’s. On second thought, however, I realized there are some things that haven’t been discussed, which others may be interested in. [MENTION=18204]lemers[/MENTION], be careful what you ask for—it’s long!
Hope you don't mind me highjacking a section, OP.
The biggest difference between my recent trip to the Ring and others that have been shared is that I did a track day instead of a Touristenfahrten. I love that word (Touristenfahrten) “Man, roll down the window if you’re gonna be doin’ that! Better yet, let me out. I’ll walk!”
Actually, it’s tourist driving—or a public day at the track. This is the most common way to experience the Ring and what’s been written about most often. You show up, pay per lap—25€ (weekday) or 30€ (weekend) and you go for it. No safety checks, no helmets required, nothing extra for passengers, no safety brief, etc. Why? Because the rules are the same as the Autobahn or any public road. Presumably, if you drove to the Nordschleife your car already meets all the legal requirements to be on the road, to include annual inspection (cars even fail for rust or dents), safety triangle, first aid kit, and all the other unique aspects of German driving requirements...and you know how to drive (pass only on the left, etc). Interestingly, when it comes to the roads, Germans subscribe to what translates roughly to a “doctrine of confidence”. Drivers, bicyclists, pedestrians, and anyone else on or near a road should be confident that they are going to be safe, because everyone is trained and responsible for their own actions, and by extension, for the safety of others. This applies to the Nürburgring as well, at least in theory. In reality, even if everyone follows the rules precisely (most do, but not all), Touristenfahrten are inherently dangerous. Motorcylces, buses, vans, and Ferraris all share the track equally, which makes for the wild shows captured on Youtube. Add to that the fact that nearly every curve is a blind curve and nearly every hill has a blind crest and the point becomes even more clear. Also, on Touristenfahrten days Ring taxis can operate and you can have passengers in your own vehicle, but instruction is (technically) not allowed. Not knocking it at all. They are fun, pretty safe overall, and worth the experience, but they are what they are, especially on a busy weekend.
By contrast, there are track days. These are more expensive; generally 800 - 1500€ or more, but in my humble opinion, worth every penny. I used the Ring Academy and paid 1095€, which includes liability insurance, but not insurance for your car (fortunately I paid before the dollar recently began to tank, so it was close to 1:1). For that price, you show up at 3.30 pm on Sunday and finish at 5pm on Monday. Sunday, you check into the hotel, get your package with your transponder, track number, etc, and have a brief from your instructor. You choose beforehand whether you want to do it in German or English, and they split the groups accordingly. The English speaking groups have some Americans and Brits (maybe a Canadian or two), but lots of other non-native German speakers as well. In my group there was a French couple (the husband drove, the wife was a +1—190€ extra), two Norwegians (each in their own car), and me. Max 4 cars per instructor. The other English speaking group was 3 Brits and an American. My instructor was a professional driver who competed in the 24hr N’ring race on one of the Audi teams two days later. He didn’t win this time, but has in the past. A native born German, probably in his mid-30s, who has been racing since his teens. Worked for two years in Indy, and when asked his favorite race, responded humbly, racing formula through the streets of Macau. The others were equally experienced and know he Nordschleife like their living rooms.
After the brief, which was relatively short, actually disappointedly so, we mounted buses for a track walk. This made up for the brief. We road the track, with narration, dismounting a couple times to walk particular sections. That was extremely useful. Track ride complete, return to the main area and have dinner on the floor of the Ring Werk. Nice touch. We were seated by teams, so it was a chance to get to know others in the group. I was, by far, the least experienced. One of the Norwegians has 500+ Touristenfahrten laps under his belt. He comes to Germany regularly for work, so he keeps his Renault Mégane RS265 there and goes onto the track at every opportunity. He had been on the track a couple days prior to the track day. The other Norwegian did the same package last year, but this year was in her new Caymen, which she had taken to the track a couple times in Norway as prep prior to driving down. The French couple hadn’t driven their Caymen on the Ring before, but had plenty of time on other tracks around the area. There’s actually a point here. There were roughly 200 cars on the track, which isn’t much considering the way they break down and launch the groups (13 miles of track to spread out on). However, the English speakers amounted to 8 cars. So, breaking down English-speaking groups by abilities can be challenging. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone with a German speaking group, and would advise the same to anyone who knows the language well enough, at least if they use this company. Can’t speak for other companies.
The evening was packed, but there was enough time in between events to prep the car—fuel, put in the transponder, numbers, tire pressure, etc. There was also time in the morning. Hotel breakfast was at 6.30 and we met at the track (10 minute drive) at 7.30. Another crititique: the hotel was great. All the amenities—workout room, sauna, pool, etc. But, the rooms weren’t ready until late, and with a full evening of events, there was no time to enjoy the amenities. The next morning, you check out before leaving, and although you can leave your bags there, you’re pretty much done with the hotel unless you stay an extra night. I wouldn’t advise that, because there are cheaper more authentic hotels available, which helps the locals more as well. 1st World problem, but worth noting.
So, at the track at 0730, lined up inside of the track by teams. Unlike Touristenfahrten, helmets are required. If you don’t have one, they provide them at no cost—just have to leave an ID as a deposit. Also, since the track is privately rented, license plates can come off if you’re into that—gas station is off track though. Finally, there is little to no silliness. Cars only, no motorcycles to pop up in your blind spot. Lap timing is strictly prohibited during the morning session. Moreover, folks who spend a grand on a track day vice 30€ are generally not the type to screw around, and there is plenty of adult supervision. Confidence doctrine is truly in effect. From 8am to lunch time is instruction. The instructor does not ride along like an HPDE (unfortunately), but each car is issued a radio—receive only, and it’s lead follow. After each lap, the cars rotate from front to back. The instructor talks you through the course as you follow the leader, and he steadily increases speed throughout the day. “You’re coming up to the compression. You want to tap your brakes just before and lift just a bit, then immediately get back onto the accelerator. Here comes the large carrousel again, remember to enter at the second panel and come out at a slight angle to set up for the turn in point up the hill…” By the lunch time, you have a good feel for the track. When does it get hairy? When (if) you lose contact with the group. Unless you have a photographic memory you will not recall every blind curve and every blind hill on the 13mile course. Adding to the doubt, there are very few run offs on the Nordschleife. There’s track and barrier or rail. But again, after following a professional around the track all morning, you become pretty confident.
Afternoon = lunch and refuel, then out on the track on your own for as many laps as your heart desires. Open pit. Get on and off as you please. The instructor remains available to do lead follow on request until the end of the day, and if you’re instructor is out with someone, you’re able to grab another. You can also team up with other drivers. The 500 lap Norwegian rode along with me on one lap and it was the best coaching I have ever received! In return, I offered for him to get behind the wheel for a lap. That was helpful for me as well.
Summary:
Advantages:
- Day and a half package deal (you can rent a car if desired, and not a bad idea to do so, even if you’re local)
- Instructors are well qualified
- Interaction with other drivers is great
- As many laps as you can do
- Safe compared to open days (one Porsche went off track, but no one was injured)
Disadvantages
- Mentioned hotel situation
- Inability to really group English speakers. The Porsche Norwegian mentioned an idea in hindsight. Although experienced, she wasn’t super confident, especially with her new (rear wheel drive) car. She mentioned that we should have broken ourselves into sub-groups and allowed the instructor to take one sub-group at a time. That would have been very doable, and there is no need to be shy about suggesting things like that
- There is no pit area to speak of to do any semi-serious maintenance
- This particular company does not do section by section training; some others do; section by section would be hugely beneficial for learning the track
OK; long write up, but hopefully it provides some additional useful information that hasn’t been covered in the past--or at least I haven't come across it...
Hope you don't mind me highjacking a section, OP.
The biggest difference between my recent trip to the Ring and others that have been shared is that I did a track day instead of a Touristenfahrten. I love that word (Touristenfahrten) “Man, roll down the window if you’re gonna be doin’ that! Better yet, let me out. I’ll walk!”
Actually, it’s tourist driving—or a public day at the track. This is the most common way to experience the Ring and what’s been written about most often. You show up, pay per lap—25€ (weekday) or 30€ (weekend) and you go for it. No safety checks, no helmets required, nothing extra for passengers, no safety brief, etc. Why? Because the rules are the same as the Autobahn or any public road. Presumably, if you drove to the Nordschleife your car already meets all the legal requirements to be on the road, to include annual inspection (cars even fail for rust or dents), safety triangle, first aid kit, and all the other unique aspects of German driving requirements...and you know how to drive (pass only on the left, etc). Interestingly, when it comes to the roads, Germans subscribe to what translates roughly to a “doctrine of confidence”. Drivers, bicyclists, pedestrians, and anyone else on or near a road should be confident that they are going to be safe, because everyone is trained and responsible for their own actions, and by extension, for the safety of others. This applies to the Nürburgring as well, at least in theory. In reality, even if everyone follows the rules precisely (most do, but not all), Touristenfahrten are inherently dangerous. Motorcylces, buses, vans, and Ferraris all share the track equally, which makes for the wild shows captured on Youtube. Add to that the fact that nearly every curve is a blind curve and nearly every hill has a blind crest and the point becomes even more clear. Also, on Touristenfahrten days Ring taxis can operate and you can have passengers in your own vehicle, but instruction is (technically) not allowed. Not knocking it at all. They are fun, pretty safe overall, and worth the experience, but they are what they are, especially on a busy weekend.
By contrast, there are track days. These are more expensive; generally 800 - 1500€ or more, but in my humble opinion, worth every penny. I used the Ring Academy and paid 1095€, which includes liability insurance, but not insurance for your car (fortunately I paid before the dollar recently began to tank, so it was close to 1:1). For that price, you show up at 3.30 pm on Sunday and finish at 5pm on Monday. Sunday, you check into the hotel, get your package with your transponder, track number, etc, and have a brief from your instructor. You choose beforehand whether you want to do it in German or English, and they split the groups accordingly. The English speaking groups have some Americans and Brits (maybe a Canadian or two), but lots of other non-native German speakers as well. In my group there was a French couple (the husband drove, the wife was a +1—190€ extra), two Norwegians (each in their own car), and me. Max 4 cars per instructor. The other English speaking group was 3 Brits and an American. My instructor was a professional driver who competed in the 24hr N’ring race on one of the Audi teams two days later. He didn’t win this time, but has in the past. A native born German, probably in his mid-30s, who has been racing since his teens. Worked for two years in Indy, and when asked his favorite race, responded humbly, racing formula through the streets of Macau. The others were equally experienced and know he Nordschleife like their living rooms.
After the brief, which was relatively short, actually disappointedly so, we mounted buses for a track walk. This made up for the brief. We road the track, with narration, dismounting a couple times to walk particular sections. That was extremely useful. Track ride complete, return to the main area and have dinner on the floor of the Ring Werk. Nice touch. We were seated by teams, so it was a chance to get to know others in the group. I was, by far, the least experienced. One of the Norwegians has 500+ Touristenfahrten laps under his belt. He comes to Germany regularly for work, so he keeps his Renault Mégane RS265 there and goes onto the track at every opportunity. He had been on the track a couple days prior to the track day. The other Norwegian did the same package last year, but this year was in her new Caymen, which she had taken to the track a couple times in Norway as prep prior to driving down. The French couple hadn’t driven their Caymen on the Ring before, but had plenty of time on other tracks around the area. There’s actually a point here. There were roughly 200 cars on the track, which isn’t much considering the way they break down and launch the groups (13 miles of track to spread out on). However, the English speakers amounted to 8 cars. So, breaking down English-speaking groups by abilities can be challenging. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone with a German speaking group, and would advise the same to anyone who knows the language well enough, at least if they use this company. Can’t speak for other companies.
The evening was packed, but there was enough time in between events to prep the car—fuel, put in the transponder, numbers, tire pressure, etc. There was also time in the morning. Hotel breakfast was at 6.30 and we met at the track (10 minute drive) at 7.30. Another crititique: the hotel was great. All the amenities—workout room, sauna, pool, etc. But, the rooms weren’t ready until late, and with a full evening of events, there was no time to enjoy the amenities. The next morning, you check out before leaving, and although you can leave your bags there, you’re pretty much done with the hotel unless you stay an extra night. I wouldn’t advise that, because there are cheaper more authentic hotels available, which helps the locals more as well. 1st World problem, but worth noting.
So, at the track at 0730, lined up inside of the track by teams. Unlike Touristenfahrten, helmets are required. If you don’t have one, they provide them at no cost—just have to leave an ID as a deposit. Also, since the track is privately rented, license plates can come off if you’re into that—gas station is off track though. Finally, there is little to no silliness. Cars only, no motorcycles to pop up in your blind spot. Lap timing is strictly prohibited during the morning session. Moreover, folks who spend a grand on a track day vice 30€ are generally not the type to screw around, and there is plenty of adult supervision. Confidence doctrine is truly in effect. From 8am to lunch time is instruction. The instructor does not ride along like an HPDE (unfortunately), but each car is issued a radio—receive only, and it’s lead follow. After each lap, the cars rotate from front to back. The instructor talks you through the course as you follow the leader, and he steadily increases speed throughout the day. “You’re coming up to the compression. You want to tap your brakes just before and lift just a bit, then immediately get back onto the accelerator. Here comes the large carrousel again, remember to enter at the second panel and come out at a slight angle to set up for the turn in point up the hill…” By the lunch time, you have a good feel for the track. When does it get hairy? When (if) you lose contact with the group. Unless you have a photographic memory you will not recall every blind curve and every blind hill on the 13mile course. Adding to the doubt, there are very few run offs on the Nordschleife. There’s track and barrier or rail. But again, after following a professional around the track all morning, you become pretty confident.
Afternoon = lunch and refuel, then out on the track on your own for as many laps as your heart desires. Open pit. Get on and off as you please. The instructor remains available to do lead follow on request until the end of the day, and if you’re instructor is out with someone, you’re able to grab another. You can also team up with other drivers. The 500 lap Norwegian rode along with me on one lap and it was the best coaching I have ever received! In return, I offered for him to get behind the wheel for a lap. That was helpful for me as well.
Summary:
Advantages:
- Day and a half package deal (you can rent a car if desired, and not a bad idea to do so, even if you’re local)
- Instructors are well qualified
- Interaction with other drivers is great
- As many laps as you can do
- Safe compared to open days (one Porsche went off track, but no one was injured)
Disadvantages
- Mentioned hotel situation
- Inability to really group English speakers. The Porsche Norwegian mentioned an idea in hindsight. Although experienced, she wasn’t super confident, especially with her new (rear wheel drive) car. She mentioned that we should have broken ourselves into sub-groups and allowed the instructor to take one sub-group at a time. That would have been very doable, and there is no need to be shy about suggesting things like that
- There is no pit area to speak of to do any semi-serious maintenance
- This particular company does not do section by section training; some others do; section by section would be hugely beneficial for learning the track
OK; long write up, but hopefully it provides some additional useful information that hasn’t been covered in the past--or at least I haven't come across it...
raiderjatt02
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What a fascinating read [MENTION=21162]Caballus[/MENTION]
If/When I make a trip out to the Nurburgring I'm definitely going to have to check out a track day like yours. Do you mind sharing the company you went with?
If/When I make a trip out to the Nurburgring I'm definitely going to have to check out a track day like yours. Do you mind sharing the company you went with?