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Coyote engine oil for the track?

Must_Tang

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Yeah, I'm done. You win!!
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wildcatgoal

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On the street and at a drag strip I just use 5w20.
On a road course I use 5w40. That's my choice and my oil pressure is not any higher than 5w20 in the same situations.

Just sent in a sample to Blackstone of Liqui Moly 5w40 used for 5,000 miles inclusive of numerous track days (changed at 53% on the oil meter in the car). If the analysis indicates anything off, I will act accordingly.

When I finally install my oil cooler, I plan to go back to 5w20 on track.
 

higdominator

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Yeah, I'm done. You win!!
I think you are lurking in the wrong section. Most of the cars in here have requirements outside of CAFE satisfying needs.
 

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Must_Tang

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Like I said, you win! Thicker oil provides more cushion as a thicker fluid will be less compressible than a thinner fluid. Because, you know, some fluids are compressible, like a thinner oil.

Never mind a wear ranking from the additive packages in the oil, that is meaningless.

Thankfully our flat non- roller tappets and pushrods in these 5.bro engines will really need the thicker oil.
 

higdominator

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Like I said, you win! Thicker oil provides more cushion as a thicker fluid will be less compressible than a thinner fluid. Because, you know, some fluids are compressible, like a thinner oil.

Never mind a wear ranking from the additive packages in the oil, that is meaningless.

Thankfully our flat non- roller tappets and pushrods in these 5.bro engines will really need the thicker oil.
You seem to be the only one mentioning a "cushion" with thicker oil. Seems like maybe you haven't comprehended anything that has been said.

Viscosity. That's what we are talking about. At racing temps a 20 weight is no longer a 20 weight, which is the minimum the design requires right?

Guys who race run a viscosity that will act like the proper viscosity at racing temps. Is that hard to understand?
 

Must_Tang

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Um...you don't recognize sarcasm? My last post was oozing with it, like your thicker oils.
 

Must_Tang

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You need to keep your flat tappets lubricated, so yes, 20w50 it is!! Don't want to wipe a cam lobe on a flat tappet....right??
 
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Must_Tang

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You seem to be the only one mentioning a "cushion" with thicker oil. Seems like maybe you haven't comprehended anything that has been said.

Viscosity. That's what we are talking about. At racing temps a 20 weight is no longer a 20 weight, which is the minimum the design requires right?

Guys who race run a viscosity that will act like the proper viscosity at racing temps. Is that hard to understand?

ah, show me some proof please that "guys who race" use a heavier, thicker oil. Are you saying that the thinner oils are for "girls who race"? Do you race? or are you a HPDE track rat like the rest of us?

Do you believe that viscosity is the only factor that defines an engine oil's protective properties?

Speak, son.
 

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EFI

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Ok at this point I'm pretty sure that this cat is just trolling us...tried reasoning with him but his responses are always snarky and something a 5 year old would do when he has no other comments or rebuttals to make but also doesn't want to concede in the argument.
 

wildcatgoal

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Motorcraft 5w50 effectively, and very quickly, shears to a 5w40 after a track session. This has been documented, Ford knows it, and Ford recommends that very oil for the Coyote "track pack" and has been documented recommending it for racing applications. I really don't feel like consolidating all that malarky here when it's out there on Bob is the Oil Guy and Track Mustangs Online and various other relatively non-boi racer sites.

So, in my infinite wisdom, I decided to split the difference, so to speak, and use a (hopefully) better oil (Liqui Moly) in their 5w40 variety. This oil has been mostly compared to Motul 5w40 and both were excellent. I think Motul was a wee smidge better in my research but notably more expensive (for me).

Anywho, my oil analysis coming soon here will tell me if it has degraded (I think... I got the fancy analysis deal). I just dropped it in the mail Saturday so... coming.
 

Must_Tang

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Ok at this point I'm pretty sure that this cat is just trolling us...tried reasoning with him but his responses are always snarky and something a 5 year old would do when he has no other comments or rebuttals to make but also doesn't want to concede in the argument.
Ok, last serious post before I continue with the trolling.

If you choose a higher quality, thinner oil that can withstand the higher sump temperatures AND still provide the needed wear protection at those temps, you have a win/win situation.

I don't understand why you think that viscosity is the only factor that deals with wear protection.

Facts are:

  1. Thinner oils flow better
  2. Oil, like any fluid, cannot be compressed - your logic states that you are using a thicker oil to ward off compression related oil film failure.
  3. Thinner oils cool better, because,
  4. Thinner oils flow more and can carry heat away quicker.
  5. Thinner oils release air bubbles faster than thicker oils as a result of windage
  6. It is recommended by the Ford
 
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EFI

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I don't understand why you think that viscosity his the only factor that deals with wear protection.
I never once said viscosity is the ONLY factor...you are assuming things. This discussion right now pertains to viscosity only, not what brand or other factors are involved in engine protection.

  1. Thinner oils flow better
  2. Oil, like any fluid, cannot be compressed - your logic states that you are using a thicker oil to ward off compression related oil film failure.
  3. Thinner oils cool better, because,
  4. Thinner oils flow more and can carry heat away quicker.
  5. Thinner oils release air bubbles faster than thicker oils as a result of windage
  6. It is recommended by the Ford
All those are true, well at least 1-5 as the last one can be debated since Ford actually recommended other viscosity of oil for the Coyote engine.

But you never once stopped to think what happens if the oil gets "too thin" which is possible. And once again, we're not saying to go with a thicker oil because it's better. We're saying that oil viscosity does not remain static, and when oil gets hot it thins out. So in order to compensate for this viscosity change, some racers choose to run thicker oil so that when it gets hot it thins out to the required viscosity.

Noone is saying to run thicker oil because it's better. We're saying to run thicker oil because at racing temperatures, that thicker oil actually thins down to the correct viscosity or close to it. If you want 5w20 viscosity at 250*, you need to run 5w30 or more. This part you don't seem to understand. We agree with you that thinner oil is better, but in order to achieve that thinner oil you must go beyond what the oil cap states when racing.

Here's a hypothetical calculation.

Say the correct viscosity is 10 (I'm just making this value up). A 5w20 at 200* is at 10, a 5w30 is at 15. So the 5w20 is the right oil to use, 5w30 is too thick.

However at 250, the 5w20 thins out to a 5 while the 5w30 thins out to a 10 (the proper viscosity). That's why some racers choose to run thicker oil...not because it's "better" but because thicker oil thins out to the proper viscosity.
 

higdominator

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ah, show me some proof please that "guys who race" use a heavier, thicker oil. Are you saying that the thinner oils are for "girls who race"? Do you race? or are you a HPDE track rat like the rest of us?

Do you believe that viscosity is the only factor that defines an engine oil's protective properties?

Speak, son.

Clearly you are just a trolling moron. A poor one at that.


And yes, guys who race are running 50 weight oils, like Driven FR50. I'm not going to run around to everyone's trailer at the track and snap a pick of their oil stash to satisfy some internet troll.


I run 40-50 weight depending on the season (Spring v Summer v Fall)




Now I'm going to pause and wait for you to respond with some poor grammar and loosely constructed logic.
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