FP350s

Supercup said:

That is in fact the limiting factor, assembling parts for 50 cars, build all at once, with limited resources to go around. So they can't build as many cars as they have buyers. I do hear some dealers are adding ADM, but race car market is a lot thinner that street car market, so probably not all that much room there. Ford Performance wants to see these cars on the track, not in a museum!

No word on weight yet - hopeful they can get down to 3,400 or less. But they have given no spec on weight or on motor HP other than one comment I got from team member that motor will be 100 hp + up from Boss 302's.

Anyone know what the hp of the boss 302s and r were/are?

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While it will be nice to know the weight and the HP of the car in the end it will not matter much as whatever sanctioning body you choose to run the car in will have a set of rules to effectively balance the performance of this Mustang to every other car in the class. Unless they setup a class of their own but with 50 cars being built there will not be a class set aside for the car unless Ford makes it happen with big dollar influence much like Mopar did with the ACRx Vipers for the Viper Cup in 2010.

Once the cars are built then the sanctioning bodies will test a car or two to determine the class and the weight penalty to employ to balance the car to the rest of the field. Hell the S550 GT's already pay a huge weight penalty to run in IMSA or SCCA Touring series. As soon as you try and run something with even more power and even lighter than the average track build they are just going to add a restrictor, weight or both, or limit you in another way like tire size. The S550 in SCCA T1 have a min wt of 3450, add 100lbs if you have the PP brakes, change the intake and they add a restrictor to the throttle body. It is in the sanctioning bodies best interest to keep the cars as close to equal as possible or everyone feels cheated and no one shows up to race.

All these factory cars do is get a set of parts introduced into a series that are either improvements to the OE spec of the production car or normally not allowed to be changed from OE. Once the sanctioning body approves the package in general you are free to build to that spec so it opens up that parts set to non-factory car builders. Use the non-factory parts and you have to pay the same penalty associated with the spec.

I am glad Ford Racing is building the FP350S it brings more cars to the party and opens up a few options to guys who want to build their own cars. It also lets guys who do not want to build their own cars have a safe way to enter the hobby provided they have the cash. This is not an inexpensive hobby and it takes deeeeeeeeeeeeeep pockets to campaign a competitive car, so I for one am happy someone is willing to do it. I just know I can not afford too, but I do love to play race car driver on the weekends at the same tracks the big boys race on.

Dave

Supercup said:

That is in fact the limiting factor, assembling parts for 50 cars, build all at once, with limited resources to go around. So they can't build as many cars as they have buyers. I do hear some dealers are adding ADM, but race car market is a lot thinner that street car market, so probably not all that much room there. Ford Performance wants to see these cars on the track, not in a museum!

No word on weight yet - hopeful they can get down to 3,400 or less. But they have given no spec on weight or on motor HP other than one comment I got from team member that motor will be 100 hp + up from Boss 302's.

Anyone know what the hp of the boss 302s and r were/are?

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450hp was the advertised power for the BOSS 302 R & S.

If you can build 50 cars in a single quarter, then you should be able to build 200 cars a year. If anything, not limiting yourself to a single quarter helps with logistics and staffing.

It should make 500 easy just with the bump in displacement over the Coyote. Must be closer to 600.

Grintch said:

450hp was the advertised power for the BOSS 302 R & S.

If you can build 50 cars in a single quarter, then you should be able to build 200 cars a year. If anything, not limiting yourself to a single quarter helps with logistics and staffing.

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Multimatic has a ton of other crazy projects.

F0J said:

Multimatic has a ton of other crazy projects.

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This is what Ford has indicated, this is a special "one time" project and they have too many other "special" projects to do more than one run of cars. So for now 50 it is.

50 units is a joke. All that means is that even if you can afford one you will never get one. Ford could have filled tracks with mustangs like mazda has done with miatas for a really good price point, but instead we get just another dream machine. What a waste!

fatbillybob said:

50 units is a joke. All that means is that even if you can afford one you will never get one. Ford could have filled tracks with mustangs like mazda has done with miatas for a really good price point, but instead we get just another dream machine. What a waste!

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Yeah but they probably cut even on the R&D for some of the parts that will be released separately. There's nothing stopping any of us of building the exact same car (for cheaper!).

Why does everything end up being about price? OP never asked anyone's opinions on price.

If you can't afford it or don't value it, then just keep your subjective opinions to yourself.

It's pretty awesome that Ford is building this as well as other car makers. I think it's awesome and somewhat reasonable for a factory built race car.

Unless you are doing majority of the work yourself, it'll cost you quiet a bit of money & time to have a shop build you a race car. I don't know if any of you have experience with Motec and custom wiring harnesses but that stuff is super expensive.

Instead of complaining about how expensive things are, why don't we encourage Ford to build more and more of these and possibly cheaper variants for the masses? :headbonk:

That's my two cents.

hulk_smash said:

Why does everything end up being about price? OP never asked anyone's opinions on price.

If you can't afford it or don't value it, then just keep your subjective opinions to yourself.

It's pretty awesome that Ford is building this as well as other car makers. I think it's awesome and somewhat reasonable for a factory built race car.

Unless you are doing majority of the work yourself, it'll cost you quiet a bit of money & time to have a shop build you a race car. I don't know if any of you have experience with Motec and custom wiring harnesses but that stuff is super expensive.

Instead of complaining about how expensive things are, why don't we encourage Ford to build more and more of these and possibly cheaper variants for the masses? :headbonk:

That's my two cents.

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I understand where your coming from but the OP did bring up the question of price and availability in the original post by asking if anyone was able to buy one yet and again in a later post, the others just continued the conversation.

fatbillybob said:

At $115k+ I'm with you guys build my own. A factory racer has appeal but if 50 units made you aren't going to get one. A miata is 30k a mustang gt is 38k. Global mx5 miata racecar is $55k the GT should be closer to $65k IMO.

If you buy a new 2017 GT full sticker at $38k put triple JRZ's, AP brakes, cage, fire system some ancillaries you are under $55k! Your build sweat equity at least $5k off that.

The cayman GT4 is $165k. The bmw 235i was another 100 unit thing unobtainable $85k euros. A mustang should be way cheaper.

I'm pretty sure Ford is not making these FR350's fast. The winning pro racers like Pheonix and Kohr are doing the trial and error and telling Ford what to do. I think guys like Kohr are doing something very similar to what Ford Racing will do with the FR350. Kohr will take a BIW (body in white) and build a mustang racecar seam welding and all the rest.

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Dave

Dave - my apologies.

I did not see that he did say that. But yea this forum puts me on tilt because every freaking comment is about value. i don't get it.

And to the OP if you take a base PP and you add JRZ motorsport dampers will set you back like $10k. And an unpainted full cage tied into strut towers and subframes and you're well over $55k without paint. Then you need safety items like seats, nets, harnesses, extinguishers. Then you need a race exhaust, brakes, wheels, tires, aero dynamics, weight reduction, engine modification, engine mounts, suspension bushings, sway bars, cooling, custom gauges etc.

And again, I have looked into stand alone systems on an M3 and it is not cheap. You're going to spend at least $15k in this department for a custom tune, wire harness and standalone.

All in you'll be in for well over $85K to build a real race car. I'm not talking about a HPDE car with 4 pt roll bar. And then you have to factor in labor if you can't do it yourself. You might end up at well over $100K when all is said and done. Sure you might have a faster car but you'll have to deal with the down time and trial and error.

The factory solution has all that stuff figured out for you and engineered by the maker of the car. So from a value perspective, it really isn't that bad.

Anyways, sorry for even chimming in. I didn't even add anything useful tot his thread. Everything annoys the shit out of me today!

hulk_smash said:

Anyways, sorry for even chimming in. I didn't even add anything useful tot his thread. Everything annoys the shit out of me today!

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Its all good :cheers:, it really comes down to what you are building. I did have a conversation with one of the Ford guys at the show and he had hoped the price would come in at the $90k price because he did not think it was a $110k car. If Ford built a version of the car that got you the cage and the safety feature in a stitch welded chassis for $90K running on the OEM ECU and let you add a data package or aftermarket ECU of your choice the car would be a better value. Price is really a moot point, since they are only making 50 cars they could have asked whatever they wanted to for the cars and easily sold 50 cars.

Dave

115k$ is not bad for a hand built *GT350* with 2 sets of track rims. I would expect this car to be much faster than a Miata spec.

From Multimatic's perspective, this was either a "fun" project (Ford threw them money for the success of the S550 and the GT), or it was a kind of proof-of-concept for developing a competitive car for less money. Or maybe they needed to justify some R&D that they'll use in future cars.

The market is pretty thin for that sorta thing over here.

F0J said:

115k$ is not bad for a hand built *GT350* with 2 sets of track rims. I would expect this car to be much faster than a Miata spec.

From Multimatic's perspective, this was either a "fun" project (Ford threw them money for the success of the S550 and the GT), or it was a kind of proof-of-concept for developing a competitive car for less money. Or maybe they needed to justify some R&D that they'll use in future cars.

The market is pretty thin for that sorta thing over here.

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Believe me with Fords and Multimatics overhead they are not making money on any of these cars, they will be a big right-off to Ford Performances marketing budget. There are too many hands in the project for them to make money at $130k a car even though there actual material cost to build the car is likely less than half the sale price the labor of this kind of low production project will eat up any potential profits.

Dave

ddozier said:

Believe me with Fords and Multimatics overhead they are not making money on any of these cars, they will be a big right-off to Ford Performances marketing budget. There are too many hands in the project for them to make money at $130k a car even though there actual material cost to build the car is likely less than half the sale price the labor of this kind of low production project will eat up any potential profits.

Dave

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Exactly, I'm trying to figure out the motive. I agree it's definitely not profit.

Here's a stretch: they had to keep people busy during a GT slowdown, e.g. supplier issue.

Either way, it's a net win for people interested in pushing the platform on a track.

F0J said:

Exactly, I'm trying to figure out the motive. I agree it's definitely not profit.

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It simple, Race on Sunday sell on Monday, but it is not just Mustangs they are selling you. How many Mustang track guys own F series pickups to pull their toys to the track? Ford make $13,000.00 on every F150 they sell and they sell one every 42 secs. They would happily sell you a Mustang at cost if you bought a F150 to pull it to the track if it meant one more F150 sell.

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2016/3/9/Most-Profitable-Cars-Of-All-Time-The-Ford-F-150-7732368/

Dave