SCCA F-Street Setup. What's Everyone Done so Far?

rodhx said:

Someone would have to protest you for illegal camber. Then you'd have to visit the protest committee & get to take the front suspension apart so the holes could be measured against the FSM.

My first trip to Nats was codriving a car that went through this exact protest & process. It thoroughly sucked and was a spiteful protest instigated by a higher finishing driver in a similar car that couldn't comprehend that we were legal. We were

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Yes, this.

Honestly, the fact that we are discussing this on an open forum is my main motivator for making sure I am within the new 1mm allowance. I have already admitted that I shaved mine to the previously accepted 2mm. Would I protest somebody for it....no...but I have seen stranger protests.

This stuff makes me question my desire to go to nationals. Local ProSolo and Tour events have been fun.

We had a guy who left impound before the Super Challenge at the ProSolo. He was informed that was a no-no, but nobody felt the need to disqualify the guy over it, he just didn't know.

NightmareMoon said:

This stuff makes me question my desire to go to nationals. Local ProSolo and Tour events have been fun.

We had a guy who left impound before the Super Challenge at the ProSolo. He was informed that was a no-no, but nobody felt the need to disqualify the guy over it, he just didn't know.

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Reading protest stories from Nationals is my favorite acitivity once they're over. So much drama ! ;-)

Unfortunately Ford sort of set Mustang drivers up for this here... And I completely believe that in Lincoln people could throw a paper for a driver that placed well in FS.

Also - it looks like FSM went from 2 mm to nothing/service bolts only (copy I have from when I bought subscription) to 1 mm.

The 2mm version though says "Enlarge hole 1-2 mm" and does not specify how it is being measured - maybe somebody figured it out, but if it's 2mm on diameter, it really only gives 1mm of negative camber adjustment (unless everyone interpreted it this way).

Again, I'm too slow to get protested but like to have things compliant and it's also engineering curiosity.

If your 2016 service manual says 2mm then you are legal at 2mm. What am I missing?

dontlifttoshift said:

If your 2016 service manual says 2mm then you are legal at 2mm. What am I missing?

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Documentation I found for 2016 says 1mm.

dontlifttoshift said:

If your 2016 service manual says 2mm then you are legal at 2mm. What am I missing?

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That there is at least three versions of documentation one of which (for 2015) says nothing about slotting...

kz said:

The 2mm version though says "Enlarge hole 1-2 mm" and does not specify how it is being measured - maybe somebody figured it out, but if it's 2mm on diameter, it really only gives 1mm of negative camber adjustment (unless everyone interpreted it this way).

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If Ford's procedure doesn't specify that the oversize hole must be concentric with the original hole, you could still interpret that to allow up to 2mm adjustment either way. While that might be a bit more difficult and time-consuming for the average shop tech to do physically, Ford is under no obligation to use SCCA's "if it doesn't say you can, then you can't" logic, and the SCCA doesn't have any basis for rewriting Ford's procedure to make it fall in line with the rest of Street Category rules thinking.


Norm

I don't have all the dates but as noted above there have been at least three FSM versions of the camber adjustment.

1) Original dated late 2014 (not a typo) allowed 1mm - 2mm with no indication of "direction" so we all used 2 mm in the "more negative camber" direction. The original FSM also mentioned that the service bolts do not have splines. However Ford did not show bolts without splines in the parts listing for the Mustang so they were not SCCA legal for the class.

2) In an effort to "legalize" bolts which were already in the Ford parts system for other cars an autocrosser in SCCA with relevant contacts at Ford (not me . . . then) worked with Ford and the bolts with no splines were added to the parts listing for Mustangs. Unfortunately it was discovered in 2016 that the FSM for 2015 and later model years was modified to remove ANY reference to slotting. Apparently on the assumption that the bolts with no splines would do the job on their own. However, the relevant part of the bolts with no splines are only 0.3 mm smaller OD than the splined version.

3) When I found out about this I found out who the contact was between SCCA and Ford and explained the situation. The contact worked with the relevant Ford people but unfortunately the Ford engineers involved do not see any need for more than 1 mm of slotting. As a result the latest version of the FSM specifies 1 mm instead of the original 2 mm.

4) Since my car was assembled at about the same time in late 2014 that the original 2mm slot was allowed I'm OK . . . other than I'm so slow now that nobody would care anyway. :-(

5) In hindsight the collective street class autocrossers would have been better off not asking for the bolts without splines.

FYI my December 2014 production 2015 GT PP with Konis and 2 mm slots will probably be for sale at Asheboro Ford in NC in Spring 2018 after I trade it for a 2018 GT PP with 10 speed automatic. :-)

Spent yesterday fixing up my front Koni's to meet the new 1mm allowance. Welded in some material and reground the hole. Went from 2.5 degrees to 2.1 degrees of negative camber... :(

Mine with 2 mm averages only -2.0 degrees. :-(

DickR said:

Mine with 2 mm averages only -2.0 degrees. :-(

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Don't feel too bad, I am measuring with a bubble level and a tape measure. Not sure how accurate I am other than it gave me an idea of the change.

That's ridiculous but the rules are the rules. I had no idea the FSM had changed....in AS now.

Where are the west coast F Streeters? Packwood NT only two weeks away and only three entries......

My personal opinion is that so much rules-lawyering and nitpickiness and building a car specifically to the top of a class takes a lot of the fun out of it. (it's also sad that the rules have to be enforced so much because people are so petty as to cheat.) I drive and compete for the fun of it, and winning is a bonus. If I'm not at the bleeding edge of modifications for whatever class I'm in, oh well, I just tighten the loose nut behind the wheel a little more. (granted, I usually end up doing pretty well, so don't have anything to grumble about, and it gives me a good excuse to not have won, lol...)

I bought my '17 Base GT used, previous owner did a muffler delete. It was the Black Accent package, so 19" square setup, threw some cheap (comparitively) Kuhmo ps91's on, held down the traction control button for 7 seconds, proceeded to whup the crap out of the rest of the FS class (and almost all of the other mustangs by 3+ seconds)

There was still more to gain for sure, but we ran out of runs. I shouldn't have left the Nannys on for the first two runs just to see what they did. Ended up 14th on pax, 28th on raw, out of 163. The car kept giving me more, as I kept learning it; I think it has some real potential! Maybe next time I'll drop the tire pressures below what I drove there on, and check my alignment.

If I put the sways and Strut Tower Bracing from a GT/PP on my base/GT, does that let me stay in FS? I'm trying to limit myself to do next to nothing to this car, since the whole point of me getting a new car was so I could finish my project cars and not wrench on the daily.

It IS a big heavy car though, and it does feel a little weird over uneven surfaces sometimes, maybe it's the progressvie rate springs. Maybe it's just new, as opposed to the 19-32 year old cars I've been driving....

SgtRauksauff said:

If I put the sways and Strut Tower Bracing from a GT/PP on my base/GT, does that let me stay in FS? I'm trying to limit myself to do next to nothing to this car, since the whole point of me getting a new car was so I could finish my project cars and not wrench on the daily.

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The good news is here's your incentive to work on those other project cars ;). You can't use the GTPP brace in FS on your car. I don't know the GT sway bar specs, but you can only change one in Street class. You could run STP or CAM-C with all of that however.