Shifter For Automatic looks unnecessary? and gets in the way....

I went to the White Madness Garage shifter, which is shorter, and has no button on top. So it looks like the manual shifter.

I like the shifter as is, because I can switch from D to S when I need to, or back again and without looking over at it.

griffbl said:

I did NOT know that....I was incorrect, and changed the original post. Thank you. I still think it would be better without the large shifter, and engaged electronically like many new cars today....especially when you have paddle shifters.....so the question remains, "do you like it the way it is, or a more modern look as I describe?" thanks!

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Engaging the park sprag - the internal automatic transmission component that mechanically locks the output shaft when you select 'P'- is still best done mechanically. Once you have a lever for that, you might as well put at least some of the other shifting functionality with the lever instead of having both a lever and a separate rotary dial.

I suspect that humans are better at judging linear motion than rotary motion, and that detents and paths for basically linear motion can be made more positive than could be done with a rotary switch.

In cars that can also be equipped with MT, you've already got the space allocated for lever-style shifting on and under the console. Might as well use it (this works out a little better for those who drive cars with both transmission types). Better still if the manually commanded shifting is also done at a console lever, as it puts everything in the same place. I've driven a car with both paddles and floor-shifter manual shifting, and find the floor shifting to be far more 'natural'.

From a driving attitude point of view, changing what has always been a mechanical lever over to an obvious electrical circuit control is a needless change, if anything a step in making driving more video-game-ish in nature.

Even Chrysler's mechanical pushbutton shifting kept you more in tune with the notion that a car is a physical device rather than a video-game simulation of one. Shifting in those cars at least took enough effort that you knew you were doing something real. As opposed to making polite requests to some computer to act as an intermediary between you and the transmission.



All that said, I don't think an AT shift lever handle/knob needs to be much bigger than an OE MT shift knob. A little bigger is fine and perhaps necessary, but it doesn't need to be as wide as the palm of your hand.


Norm

I think the current auto shifter is just fine with one exception, it should also allow manual up/down off to one side, preferably the left.

One thing I really like about paddle shifters is when you are really pushing the car, you have both hands on the wheel....I may be sounding wimpy with this, but with the car’s horsepower today, I kind of like that also!

MaskedRacerX said:

Since the car has the option for a manual, the space where the shifter goes has been designed to _have_ a shifter. Even if it's an automatic, you still need some kind of shifting mechanism, so use the same space, the same style (i.e., a shaft with a knob on top ... *snicker* ...)

I suspect as manuals go away (ugh), and cars are only available as automatics, we'll see less and less of that design hold over, that space allocated to other things like wireless charging areas for devices, and any kind of shifter looking device will disappear too.

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We've already seen it happen in high-end exotics. I can't think of any new supercar off the top of my head that has come out in the last 5 years that doesn't just have buttons to complement the paddles. Even in the last Ferrari and Lamborghini models that offered 3-pedal manuals, their semi-auto versions used buttons in the place of a traditional lever.

Kind of makes you wonder where manufacturers who continue to produce console mounted electronic shifters get the "well that's where people prefer to have it" argument from. I have a hunch that the vast majority of drivers who only care about point A to B would rather have that space freed up for things like storage and charging, etc. like you said.

One day we will look back and chuckle "Remember when there used to be this stick thing in the middle of the car?" Just as we do now with arm rest ashtrays and floor mounted high-beams button.

madness garage shifter

GTP said:

I went to the White Madness Garage shifter, which is shorter, and has no button on top. So it looks like the manual shifter.

I like the shifter as is, because I can switch from D to S when I need to, or back again and without looking over at it.

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Good suggestion! that shifter does look a ton better! Wish Ford Racing had a knob that would fit it!

I need the shifter in my Tundra to rest my hand on, maybe a habit from the old days of driving manuals. I drove a rental recently with the dam knob in place of the shifter and it was really weird, I had this strange floating right hand thing going on...LOL

MX5Racer said:

One day we will look back and chuckle "Remember when there used to be this stick thing in the middle of the car?" Just as we do now with arm rest ashtrays and floor mounted high-beams button.

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Nice post. I had to look up "floor mounted high-beams button" - I'm only 34
I had to laugh at "armrest ashtray" though - got one in my '97 bmw.

I still think there needs to be some kind of better solution than just paddle shifters, and just buttons on the wheel messes me up mentally like am I changing the volume or the gear?

I'm a little torn on the center stick thing disappearing. I can see them miniaturizing, but I don't think just buttons works as well just like touchscreen only AC/radio controls are a nightmare. A smaller stick that doesn't travel as far but still has something you can reach, feel, and move up-down from P - R - N - D. Pressing the wrong button seems too easy.

Need buttons. A shifter for auto is just cry for those that drive manual.

I drive both autos and manuals. It's nice to have the gear lever in the same place, for instance to knock the auto into neutral when going down an icy hill or easily swapping between reverse and forward when rocking out of snow.

One thing I have noticed between RHD and LHD cars is that my dominant hand is still on the wheel in RHD when changing gear whereas in LHD my left hand is on the wheel. My left hand is nowhere near as good at doing things as the right, things like steering.

My conclusion is auto is best for LHD countries like the US (unless you are left handed) and manual or auto for RHD like the UK, Australia and Japan

jasonstang said:

Need buttons. A shifter for auto is just cry for those that drive manual.

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Buttons have been done, and discarded at least in part because of 'PRNDL' officially becoming the standard AT shift position sequence. Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's Chrysler had pushbutton shifting for at least two of their automatics, but gave them up a year or tow after the 1964 model year. If buttons weren't good enough then, what makes them good enough now to fly in the face of 50+ years of PRNDL standardization?

Incidentally, it's not just about those who still have a stick-shift car. What about those who have (or will have) other cars with PRNDL levers? Even if all mfrs shift to buttons, do you seriously think they're all going to agree on the same button layout? NHTSA prefers to be technology-neutral, meaning they're looking for results rather than the details of the approaches used, so they won't be likely to specify any particular layout. Even Chrysler didn't stick to the same button arrangement from year to year (I've driven cars with at least three different pushbutton layouts).


I still don't like or trust electrical/electronic activation of the park sprag. Chrysler's pushbutton arrangements (in the later years at least) used a separate lever located next to the buttons. Pulling it down to activate 'Park' also caused the transmission to go into neutral and the 'N' button to be depressed.


Norm

Norm Peterson said:

Buttons have been done, and discarded at least in part because of 'PRNDL' officially becoming the standard AT shift position sequence. Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's Chrysler had pushbutton shifting for at least two of their automatics, but gave them up a year or tow after the 1964 model year. If buttons weren't good enough then, what makes them good enough now to fly in the face of 50+ years of PRNDL standardization?

Incidentally, it's not just about those who still have a stick-shift car. What about those who have (or will have) other cars with PRNDL levers? Even if all mfrs shift to buttons, do you seriously think they're all going to agree on the same button layout? NHTSA prefers to be technology-neutral, meaning they're looking for results rather than the details of the approaches used and won't be likely to specify any specific layout. Even Chrysler didn't stick to the same button arrangement from year to year (I've driven cars with at least three different pushbutton layouts).


I still don't like or trust electrical/electronic activation of the park sprag. Chrysler's pushbutton arrangements (in the later years at least) used a separate lever located next to the buttons. Pulling it down to activate 'Park' also caused the transmission to go into neutral and the 'N' button to be depressed.


Norm

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Maybe not on a normal econocar but luxury sports cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini all have buttons for their PRND positions and I see a trend of doing if manufactures are gonna start streaming interior design. On a Mustang make it will make the driver feel a bit more special having a button type shiftier. As for parking claw there are many ways to do it if Dodge is brave enough to use a dial on their mass produced cars I don't think they would put a unreliable design out there.

The Taurus has a worse design way to big and in the way.
Mustang can remain, maybe just make it a bit smaller.
No frickin' dial!

jasonstang said:

Maybe not on a normal econocar but luxury sports cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini all have buttons for their PRND positions and I see a trend of doing if manufactures are gonna start streaming interior design. On a Mustang make it will make the driver feel a bit more special having a button type shiftier.

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IOW, snob appeal.

As for parking claw there are many ways to do it if Dodge is brave enough to use a dial on their mass produced cars I don't think they would put a unreliable design out there.

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The park sprag is a mechanical device that's either applied or not applied. You don't need a computer to make that happen. Inserting one anyway, see snob appeal. . . . (I throw up in my mouth a little whenever I see a car ad and the driver - female, if that matters any - gently turns some knob on the console to put it in gear instead of moving a lever.)


Norm