Shifter For Automatic looks unnecessary? and gets in the way....

Chameleon said:

Suprisingly, this has not tuned into a manual vs. auto thread.

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I actually find this discussion funny in that way. Everyone in the "it needs a shifter, otherwise it's barely a car!" crowd forgets that exact argument could be made about having an automatic at all.

Give it buttons like the supercars. A shifter in an auto (especially with paddles!) is simply an archaic holdover.

Back to the beginning for a moment . . .

griffbl said:

Is it just me, or does the Shifter look goofy now? I mean I thought it was electronically activated with sensors, (but it has been pointed out to me by another forum member that it is indeed connected with linkage, much to my surprise!) .....Modern cars seem to have done away with the unsightly projection with a simple electronically operated knob, etc., that does not project into the interior.

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It's poor design when function is compromised to suit a futuristic styling theme. Dials work on a kitchen range because being immediately precise in setting its position is not required. Transmission shifting is not the same kind of task, you want to be able to get it exactly right the first time every time. 'Missing' the intended position is not "close enough", it's "wrong".

A common, modern enhancement similar to say, seeing a "Start" button vs. actually turning a key...

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Is there some reason you want to forget that a car is a mechanical device?


Norm

Many 'drivers' seem to prefer an appliance nowadays...sadly.

Oooh yeah... a 435 hp toaster would be awesome!

Endokendal said:

Oooh yeah... a 435 hp toaster would be awesome!

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yea so my wife can burn up the toast faster!

40calcobra said:

yea so my wife can burn up the toast faster!

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I had a friend who I asked if he used an alarm to wake up in the morning, and he said "no, i always hear my wife scraping the black off of my toast".

But I digress....looks like the poll is currently running about 3-2 in favor of keeping a stick style shifter for the auto....and some people are quite passionate about its' retention!

(It has also been pointed out that this thread has thankfully not morphed into an auto vs. manual transmission thread! So I will try to avoid that with one small deviation: I don't think I will EVER buy a NEW car with a manual tranny again, now that autos are both more efficient, and faster, than their manual counterparts today....that is where a manual counterpart even still exists! I first experienced this with Porsche's wonderful PDK, which is actually a manual transmission with two electronically operated clutches. Unbelievable to stop on an incline and feel your brake pedal depress because your manual tranny (which, again, shifts like an automatic) is actually in Neutral! And to feel the clutch being disengaged as you start from a stop! I LOVE that tranny! To Ford's and GM's joint credit, I find it absolutely stunning that the new 10 speed, fluid filled automatic shifts even FASTER than Porsche's PDK! Amazing!) I love Ford's 10-speed tranny in the F150 and can't wait to drive it in the Mustang!

I mentioned the "Start" button as an example of recent changes in my original post....My 2006 Ford GT was the first car I owned with a "start" button.....and it was eye catching, trend setting and futuristic then! (at least for me and many others) Now, "start" buttons are ubiquitous. No doubt we can come up with many other examples of rapid technological change. In fact change is SO rapid in today's cars' features that it is contributing to more leasing vs. buying for people who trade relatively frequently, (and even some who don't) as technological advancement is on an increasingly frantic pace. Turbocharging enhancements, variable valve timing, lighter materials and cylinder coatings, electronically driven accessories, hybrid drivetrains, and many safety features that are driven by software enhancements. My opinion only, is that, like it or not, these sticks are going away. Again, doesn't mean we have to like it, but it's likely to happen sooner than we all think. As it has been pointed out, if it is good enough for supercars and exotics, like Ferrari...and McClaren, it is going to be good enough for Ford's Mustang. The presence of a stick type shifter will soon be looked as if the car is NOT keeping up with other manufacturers if they do NOT change it.

Thanks again to everyone for participating in the poll and this thread!

Brad

Norm Peterson said:

Yuck.

Might as well put up signs that read "I drive because I have to, not because I want to".


Norm

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It was a joke post. This whole thread is crazy.

Colleton said:

It was a joke post.

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(don't tell it that way at the Comedy Club, it'll bomb for sure ;) )


Norm

griffbl said:

As it has been pointed out, if it is good enough for supercars and exotics, like Ferrari...and McClaren, it is going to be good enough for Ford's Mustang. The presence of a stick type shifter will soon be looked as if the car is NOT keeping up with other manufacturers if they do NOT change it.

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IOW, emulating the moneyed elite for no other reason than to pretend to be elite yourself. Fitting your car out more as 'jewelry to be displayed for and admired by others, with limited attention paid to actual function. AKA envy and easily sold on snob appeal. I just don't get it.

You mention 'rapid technological change' - perhaps it's too rapid as it is, and feeding on appeal for its own sake rather than actual usefulness. Some things I get, but others and particularly the use of software to control things that don't really need continuous monitoring is real time or changes from mechanical to more electrical/electronic oriented interfaces for simple physical tasks (like manually-commanded gearshifting) I don't.


If I ever do have to own a two-pedal car, it will need to use a console-mounted lever. Even if I have to make it myself - about here you should understand that this wouldn't be the first time the idea of fabricating my own shifter for an AT would go beyond being just a passing thought.


Norm

Norm Peterson said:

IOW, emulating the moneyed elite for no other reason than to pretend to be elite yourself. Fitting your car out more as 'jewelry to be displayed for and admired by others, with limited attention paid to actual function. AKA envy and easily sold on snob appeal. I just don't get it.

You mention 'rapid technological change' - perhaps it's too rapid as it is, and feeding on appeal for its own sake rather than actual usefulness. Some things I get, but others and particularly software related to controlling things that don't really need continuous monitoring is real time I don't.


Norm

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Good Morning Norm!

I don't agree with all of the "rapid technological change" but it is here to stay. As I have said, you (we!) don't have to like it, but the pace of change is likely to continue to accelerate from today, at least in my humble opinion. I think the user interfaces will continue to improve, as software improves. I don't like everything mandated in today's nanny state, but much of it has made our cars better, and certainly safer. To think that my 2015 GT is faster, quicker, safer, more comfortable with great A/C, music etc. and uses less fuel than the myriad of muscle cars I have owned is stunning. I have enjoyed a great Boss 302, 71' 429 CJ, an AC Cobra, a 2006 Ford GT (that car WILL kill you if you are not careful!), Porsches, a 70' LT1 4 speed Z-28, and my favorite and most engaging, a 1965 Shelby GT 350. And many others.... At 57, my stable has been reduced, and my 65' Mustang K Code Fast back has been built to Shelby specs, so as to replicate the feel of my 65' GT350 without having permanently altering the car. It is still the best, most visceral, engaging driving experience I have ever enjoyed. Even more than the AC. I know you appreciate being engaged while driving....I am not insensitive or ignorant of that feeling. I appreciate it more than most! My Ecoboost F150 sounds like a blender, or shop vac, maybe, but it is a great piece of hardware. It will do things that requried a 3/4 ton not long ago. I just need to wear it out before it gets a 10 speed aluminum 10 speed F150 as a replacement! I appreciate old school....(as I am certainly getting older! ) but I am certainly enjoying the new, also. At least most of it!

Have a great day!

Bradford

Look at function ahead of style. Certainly there is no fundamental reason it needs to be a big lever anymore, but the replacement solution needs to be better and a lot of them are not. I would vote "it depends" but there is no such selection.

The big lever that moves through gates has a lot of advantages, it's precise and tactile. You can easily move from P through R and N to D without looking. IMO the worst types are the big lever that is really just a toggle (like the infamous FCA shifter). I've had these on rental cars. Some have a "detente 1 and detente 2" which maybe you get used to after a long time, but I found very error prone and required looking at the shift selector window. These combine the worst of both worlds. Dial type (depending on implementation) seem to hit a nice middle ground in that they allow eyes free movement (push down to go through gates) and take up less room.
Edit- Maybe the discriminator is - Can you use it do do a Rockford Files turn? Pretty easy with a big lever.

Colleton said:

They should replace it with the round shifter from the Fusion.

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I have not tried this one, but Consumer Reports pointed it out as being one of the best of the rotary type designs.....While CR is obviously not my most important arbiter of things automotive , they do point out this is at least safe and much better than most of other types being used today...

TomcatDriver said:

Dial type (depending on implementation) seem to hit a nice middle ground in that they allow eyes free movement (push down to go through gates) and take up less room.

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But would you want to use any sort of a dial to manually command shifts when you're out on a track at an HPDE event? Or for a spirited drive on a country road at a somewhat slower pace? Being a further reach from the steering wheel is going to be at least a slight 'negative'.

Dials may be a decent enough solution for those who rarely/never use positions other than 'P', 'R', and 'D', but the sports car kind of driver is getting thrown under the bus.


Norm

Norm Peterson said:

But would you want to use any sort of a dial to manually command shifts when you're out on a track at an HPDE event? Or for a spirited drive on a country road at a somewhat slower pace? Being a further reach from the steering wheel is going to be at least a slight 'negative'.

Dials may be a decent enough solution for those who rarely/never use positions other than 'P', 'R', and 'D', but the sports car kind of driver is getting thrown under the bus.


Norm

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Well I was probably not clear but I always thought a dial or some type of selector would be accompanied by paddles or some other way to change gears manually!!

Norm Peterson said:

But would you want to use any sort of a dial to manually command shifts when you're out on a track at an HPDE event? Or for a spirited drive on a country road at a somewhat slower pace? Being a further reach from the steering wheel is going to be at least a slight 'negative'.

Dials may be a decent enough solution for those who rarely/never use positions other than 'P', 'R', and 'D', but the sports car kind of driver is getting thrown under the bus.

Norm

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The assumption was that you would be using paddle shifters for that.