Highest N/A rwhp?

MrCincinnati · Oct 19, 2017

My R is completely stock right now. Like the rest of you - I have no problem breaking the tires loose on a near redline 3/4 shift, so it's not like I "need" more power... but if I wanted more power *grin* - what are we talking about max rwhp n/a this thing has been modded to so far on 93?

nastang87xx · Oct 19, 2017

I've definitely always wondered what could be done to maybe keep the torque band up a little more and prevent it from falling back down to about the 325lb ft range way up top. Example, and please excuse my paint skills but how do we, and can we, get the torque curve to look like the bottom rather than the top? And maybe try to keep it within somewhat emissions compliance for us who live in hippy regions.

MrCincinnati · Oct 19, 2017

nastang87xx said:
I've definitely always wondered what could be done to maybe keep the torque band up a little more and prevent it from falling back down to about the 325lb ft range way up top. Example, and please excuse my paint skills but how do we, and can we, get the torque curve to look like the bottom rather than the top? And maybe try to keep it within somewhat emissions compliance for us who live in hippy regions.

That would be great, indeed. When I'm pushing the car, that dip doesn't bother me as much, but getting rid of it would make running up into the power band that much more enjoyable/consistent. I'd like another 100hp across the board and near matching torque - including smoothing out that dip, if possible. Is that unrealistic on 93 w/out FI?

nastang87xx · Oct 19, 2017

I don't think another 100HP is going to be dooable. You're talking more power than a Lamborghini Huracan LP610 with less RPM and more vibration challenges. What I do think is possible though or at least I would like to think so, is maybe in between a 580 and a 610. An intake and tune is already good for about 560 on a good day. Long tube headers can bump that to 580'ish. However, I don't want to do long tube headers.

There has been much debate over bigger throttle bodies. The consensus is a bigger port like a 100 vs the 87 we have now really doesn't do much. Based on what has been found thus far regarding this engine and the intake manifold it's using, the maxed out cams, the throttle body requirements, and the vibration characteristics, I think the Voodoo's biggest bottle neck is actually the firing order.

I think the only saving grace would be ITB's. And that is a lot of money. A LOT...

JN66 · Oct 19, 2017

I'm running the above (Tune, exhaust including long tube headers) and I regret the headers due to the change in sound and breaking noise restrictions at local tracks.

If I could do it all again from the start I wouldn't change anything except the MGW shifter, camber plates and the usual oil catchers.

I am too far gone now so I will continue my mod train as I won't ever get back what I put into it...gonna keep this thing for the foreseeable future.

MrCincinnati · Oct 19, 2017

JN66 said:
I'm running the above (Tune, exhaust including long tube headers) and I regret the headers due to the change in sound and breaking noise restrictions at local tracks.

I'm apprehensive about changing the sound in a bad way, also. Not so much the noise restrictions, however. Any dyno numbers?

MrCincinnati · Oct 19, 2017

nastang87xx said:
I don't think another 100HP is going to be dooable. You're talking more power than a Lamborghini Huracan LP610 with less RPM and more vibration challenges. What I do think is possible though or at least I would like to think so, is maybe in between a 580 and a 610. An intake and tune is already good for about 560 on a good day. Long tube headers can bump that to 580'ish. However, I don't want to do long tube headers.

There has been much debate over bigger throttle bodies. The consensus is a bigger port like a 100 vs the 87 we have now really doesn't do much. Based on what has been found thus far regarding this engine and the intake manifold it's using, the maxed out cams, the throttle body requirements, and the vibration characteristics, I think the Voodoo's biggest bottle neck is actually the firing order.

I think the only saving grace would be ITB's. And that is a lot of money. A LOT...

I think what I'm looking for is a bit more HP around 7k-8k...

Ran a Maserati the other night and he got the jump but couldn't get away and I reeled him easily.. but my shift lights are set at 7500 or 7700 - and I noticed when they were just above half lit up I stopped gaining and didn't start gaining again until I upshifted and got back in the meat. Maybe I need a new air filter (ok I do need a new air filter), but that can't be the only thing robbing power at those revs.

nastang87xx · Oct 19, 2017

MrCincinnati said:
I think what I'm looking for is a bit more HP around 7k-8k...

Ran a Maserati the other night and he got the jump but couldn't get away and I reeled him easily.. but my shift lights are set at 7500 or 7700 - and I noticed when they were just above half lit up I stopped gaining and didn't start gaining again until I upshifted and got back in the meat. Maybe I need a new air filter (ok I do need a new air filter), but that can't be the only thing robbing power at those revs.

If I had to have something, I'd agree with you on this. Flatten that torque out a bit up top. It still pulls at 7 - 8200 but just not with insane authority. It feels deliberate but not necessarily aggressive. Very noticeable on the big road courses. 5th gear going up Road America Straight for instance.

Ninjak · Oct 19, 2017

JN66 said:
I'm running the above (Tune, exhaust including long tube headers) and I regret the headers due to the change in sound and breaking noise restrictions at local tracks.

If I could do it all again from the start I wouldn't change anything except the MGW shifter, camber plates and the usual oil catchers.

I am too far gone now so I will continue my mod train as I won't ever get back what I put into it...gonna keep this thing for the foreseeable future.

I would agree that the Kooks LT's and the O/R x pipe truly changed some of the sound. I just had mines done and its def louder than it was. Thank goodness I still have the quiet mode. Question? Whats the "tuner x pipe" one you had made ?

I am over 500 RWHP now so I am happy with it. The car is moving out. But truth, if I would do again, I would probably do maybe headers only...the rest is up to snuff IMO.

Darkane · Oct 19, 2017

Flatter torque curve? Add duration of valve openings.

Also I truly have to look into it more, but coming from the Honda world where they also have cam phasers, they just call it “I-vtec”.

The trick was to have the cam advance itself sooner and potentially mechanically modify the intake cam gear to allow some more timing without piston to valve issues.

Not apples to apples - but - the Honda camp is seeing 90+ wtq/L with pump gas.

We’re talking MAJOR volumetric efficiencies. Our engine wasn’t designed equally. It’s hard to explain.

Our engine needs long, flat runners, big throttle body, ported heads with more duration.

Then you’ll see what you’re looking for.

mustangr · Oct 19, 2017

I know JMSChip had a GT350 on their dynojet it make 538 rwhp. mods were: JLT Intake, Full headers without cats, race fuel. Tuned by Monty @ JMS.
Full exhaust, Intake and Tune will get you 500-530ish rwhp. good fuel makes a big difference.

Another friend of mine who is on here made a little under 500 with the same mods on pump gas. I was hoping he would post up on this thread as well. (Burnin4)

Darkane · Oct 19, 2017

mustangr said:
I know JMSChip had a GT350 on their dynojet it make 538 rwhp. mods were: JLT Intake, Full headers without cats, race fuel. Tuned by Monty @ JMS.
Full exhaust, Intake and Tune will get you 500-530ish rwhp. good fuel makes a big difference.

What was the baseline? End numbers need a baseline or else it’s irrelevant.

Did he have 1/4 mph? That’s a good indication of power.

mustangr · Oct 19, 2017

Darkane said:
What was the baseline? End numbers need a baseline or else it’s irrelevant.

Did he have 1/4 mph? That’s a good indication of power.

Cant answer that. One of my best friends is the Master Tech at JMS and he was texting me as they were dynoing the car. Car came in with the headers and everything already installed on it. so no baseline numbers were available.

nastang87xx · Oct 19, 2017

Darkane said:
Flatter torque curve? Add duration of valve openings.

Also I truly have to look into it more, but coming from the Honda world where they also have cam phasers, they just call it “I-vtec”.

The trick was to have the cam advance itself sooner and potentially mechanically modify the intake cam gear to allow some more timing without piston to valve issues.

Not apples to apples - but - the Honda camp is seeing 90+ wtq/L with pump gas.

We’re talking MAJOR volumetric efficiencies. Our engine wasn’t designed equally. It’s hard to explain.

Our engine needs long, flat runners, big throttle body, ported heads with more duration.

Then you’ll see what you’re looking for.

Well put, I think you're on to something...why do engines fall of up top? Because of valving. Why do LS's fall off up top? Volumentric advantages in the mid range but huff and puff after the mid range fun is over. Sounds like we would need new cams then. I think lift is about maxed but duration I'm not sure about.

EDIT: I think more duration would certainly wake up those bigger TB's that everyone and to be fair, are rightfully dismissing.

MrCincinnati · Oct 19, 2017

Darkane said:
Flatter torque curve? Add duration of valve openings.

Also I truly have to look into it more, but coming from the Honda world where they also have cam phasers, they just call it “I-vtec”.

The trick was to have the cam advance itself sooner and potentially mechanically modify the intake cam gear to allow some more timing without piston to valve issues.

Not apples to apples - but - the Honda camp is seeing 90+ wtq/L with pump gas.

We’re talking MAJOR volumetric efficiencies. Our engine wasn’t designed equally. It’s hard to explain.

Our engine needs long, flat runners, big throttle body, ported heads with more duration.

Then you’ll see what you’re looking for.

I was under the assumption our cam profiles were already pretty aggressive? Perhaps even near max?

Highest N/A rwhp?

MrCincinnati

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nastang87xx

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MrCincinnati

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nastang87xx

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JN66

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MrCincinnati

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MrCincinnati

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nastang87xx

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Ninjak

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Darkane

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mustangr

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Darkane

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mustangr

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nastang87xx

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MrCincinnati

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