Procharger Stage 2 Installed, Tuning Questions

First of all sorry I know there are a million threads on the procharger system right now, but I don't want to hijack other's threads and my other thread on spark plugs is well solved.

I just got my PC Stage 2 installed. I ran it on the highway for a bit to get a few pulls in once the oil pressure settled out and the car warmed up. I'm seeing timing being pulled. The AFR looks good around 11.5ish. I'm going to attach my log file.

I'm seeing as much as 4 degrees of knock. This seems pretty excessive. What do you guys normally see? Car is bone stock except the cat-back as far as performance mods go.

I did scare the crap out of myself in a 3rd gear pull, check the second log file to see where I shit myself and the logging cut short. I was coming off of ~7k rpm and I lost all engine power. I was sure I did something stupid and expensive, but it was just the intake silicone hose, it de-coupled. Adrian at MAK had me so freaked about over-torquing these that I must have been too scared.

Had to haggle with a wrecker to get my car home though as I had no tools out and I was on the highway :(.

Let me know what you guys think about the log. I'm going to get it out to PC as well.

oesman said:

First of all sorry I know there are a million threads on the procharger system right now, but I don't want to hijack other's threads and my other thread on spark plugs is well solved.

I just got my PC Stage 2 installed. I ran it on the highway for a bit to get a few pulls in once the oil pressure settled out and the car warmed up. I'm seeing timing being pulled. The AFR looks good around 11.5ish. I'm going to attach my log file.

I'm seeing as much as 4 degrees of knock. This seems pretty excessive. What do you guys normally see? Car is bone stock except the cat-back as far as performance mods go.

I did scare the crap out of myself in a 3rd gear pull, check the second log file to see where I shit myself and the logging cut short. I was coming off of ~7k rpm and I lost all engine power. I was sure I did something stupid and expensive, but it was just the intake silicone hose, it de-coupled. Adrian at MAK had me so freaked about over-torquing these that I must have been too scared.

Had to haggle with a wrecker to get my car home though as I had no tools out and I was on the highway :(.

Let me know what you guys think about the log. I'm going to get it out to PC as well.

Click to expand...

My timing is locked on boost at 18 deg ..My data logs show a - mark before the timing number and that is what you want to see .. If you see + before the number it is pulling timing.. I know it seems backward but that the way it works ..As for the A/F numbers I see lower than 11.5.1 .. I see 10.9.1 or a bit lower at full boost ..

smokinzx14r said:

My timing is locked on boost at 18 deg ..My data logs show a - mark before the timing number and that is what you want to see .. If you see + before the number it is pulling timing.. I know it seems backward but that the way it works ..As for the A/F numbers I see lower than 11.5.1 .. I see 10.9.1 or a bit lower at full boost ..

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Wow that's surprisingly rich, are you running >10PSI? Yep you're completely right about negative vs positive knock values. In my case they are sadly positive. Indeed it looks like it is commanding 18 degrees as you say, because the knock retard is pulling 4 and I'm winding up at 14 degrees.

Might be false knock. Check every point on your exhaust for contact points and loose bolts. I had an issue where I wasn't getting all the timing added and it ended up being a slightly loose bolt on my mid pipe.

Have you changed to colder plugs yet?

MyLilPony said:

Have you changed to colder plugs yet?

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Yep at 0.032".

As far as false knock not so sure. Had nothing but negative knock numbers before the install.

Also with false knock wouldnt it just keep pulling timing? Here it tears 4 degrees off at WOT and chills.

Possibly bad fuel

whatsup62 said:

Possibly bad fuel

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Maybe. Its chevron 93 octane that ive used from the same station for years including on other aftermarket FI cars. Not getting any knock with same station's fuel in my Audi and that thing has stupid high factory engine compression and a turbo, i have no idea how these things dont grenade.

I can get some unleaded gulf 116 race fuel near my office and try that to rule out bad fuel.

My guess is tune or something is tapping somewhere. Doubt it would be bad gas unless it has been sitting somewhere for a long time.

MyLilPony said:

My guess is tune or something is tapping somewhere. Doubt it would be bad gas unless it has been sitting somewhere for a long time.

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It could possibly be something tapping, but I really don't think its false knock. Mainly because I didn't have this problem before I started the install. I went out and logged data before starting. So I'm fairly confident my exhaust isn't rattling around. Also once it pulls 4 degrees off it stops, so the retarded timing is making things "better" IMO.

oesman said:

First of all sorry I know there are a million threads on the procharger system right now, but I don't want to hijack other's threads and my other thread on spark plugs is well solved.

I just got my PC Stage 2 installed. I ran it on the highway for a bit to get a few pulls in once the oil pressure settled out and the car warmed up. I'm seeing timing being pulled. The AFR looks good around 11.5ish. I'm going to attach my log file.

I'm seeing as much as 4 degrees of knock. This seems pretty excessive. What do you guys normally see? Car is bone stock except the cat-back as far as performance mods go.

I did scare the crap out of myself in a 3rd gear pull, check the second log file to see where I shit myself and the logging cut short. I was coming off of ~7k rpm and I lost all engine power. I was sure I did something stupid and expensive, but it was just the intake silicone hose, it de-coupled. Adrian at MAK had me so freaked about over-torquing these that I must have been too scared.

Had to haggle with a wrecker to get my car home though as I had no tools out and I was on the highway :(.

Let me know what you guys think about the log. I'm going to get it out to PC as well.

Click to expand...

Long story short.....

Your AFR's are good.
Your Spark commanded is correct

If your car doesn't want it 99% of the time, its junk fuel.



Thankfully our system runs crazy low IAT's so the cars always usually here in KC "add" timing to them, which we allow. So in colder weather with good 93 we can see them run into the 20 degree range. Hopefully with another tank of fuel you will get some better results. (or it's not something silly like cats not flowing well)

ProChargerTECH said:

Long story short.....

Your AFR's are good.
Your Spark commanded is correct

If your car doesn't want it 99% of the time, its junk fuel.



Thankfully our system runs crazy low IAT's so the cars always usually here in KC "add" timing to them, which we allow. So in colder weather with good 93 we can see them run into the 20 degree range. Hopefully with another tank of fuel you will get some better results. (or it's not something silly like cats not flowing well)

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Yesterday I crawled all over the car making sure everything that could possibly be tapping is not tapping. It's possible it's the fuel. IATs were in the high 70s when I was testing, can't ask for much better in Houston .

Do you think I should just go run this tank down and fill up with Gulf Mach 116 and see if it goes away? I can get it down the street.

EDIT: What should I look for cat flow wise? The factory cats are still on since the driver's side is welded on. The car has ~4,000 miles on it and was on a stock tune until this PC install.

Just got my Procharger stage II install over the weekend. Did some pull today and I have KNOCKR as high as 4 degrees(0-4) same as OP. Idling is fine, regular cruising is fine. Just when I get on the throttle the car is under load the number starts to go up. AFR at 10.8-11.2 also.

Is this a Procharger canned tune issue?

cyandhappiness said:

Just got my Procharger stage II install over the weekend. Did some pull today and I have KNOCKR as high as 4 degrees(0-4) same as OP. Idling is fine, regular cruising is fine. Just when I get on the throttle the car is under load the number starts to go up. AFR at 10.8-11.2 also.

Is this a Procharger canned tune issue?

Click to expand...

Post up your logging, if you don't have any let the car warm up do a pull and take a log with the ngauge. If you're not sure how; In gauge mode tap anything and select "start log", then tap again to stop logging, then use your computer to get the file from the memory on the gauge by either plugging your computer into it and selecting "USB SD" mode from Diagnostics or by removing the SD card from the gauge.

Your AFR sounds good, even lower than I'd expect honestly. It could be a fuel issue, you on 93? I think the winter blend gas is killing us?

ProChargerTECH said:

Long story short.....

Your AFR's are good.
Your Spark commanded is correct

If your car doesn't want it 99% of the time, its junk fuel.



Thankfully our system runs crazy low IAT's so the cars always usually here in KC "add" timing to them, which we allow. So in colder weather with good 93 we can see them run into the 20 degree range. Hopefully with another tank of fuel you will get some better results. (or it's not something silly like cats not flowing well)

Click to expand...

Man you were so right, it's definitely the gas. I did several tests. I ran again on Chevron 93 which is from the same station I've always used. On my supercharged camaro a few years ago they had the best gas locally so I stuck with them. I was getting 14 degrees of timing.

I ran the fuel down and went and got gas from the brand new Shell down the street, 93 octane. Immediately mostly fixed the problem, occasionally pulling a degree or two.

I went out and got a 5 gal drum of Sunoco GT Plus 260 104 octane (98 RON) unleaded oxygenated fuel. I mixed it 25/75 into my tank of Shell 93. I'm now seeing up to 22 degrees of timing under boost and holy shit she is a beast.

[MENTION=11041]ProChargerTECH[/MENTION],

One questions for me remains, it seems like the tune won't add/pull more than 4 degrees. Is that right? I never see it adding or pulling more than 4 degrees. Is this some kind of limit in the tune? It's fine if it wont add more than 4, but not pulling more than 4 worries me a bit. I may be totally off base here, I'm very new to these computers and my experience is much more old school; HP Tuners on 4th Gen Camaros and a tiny bit of tinkering on a G8 GT.

Check out the timing in this picture.

whatsup62 said:

Possibly bad fuel

Click to expand...

;)