Ford Racing ProCal Tune

KV Racing said:

10 yrs ago I worked for a shop that had a chassis dyno. We would get guys in there all the time chasing numbers. Sad thing was, guys would put down a big number on the dyno, go to the track and run less than impressive times.

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Difference between dyno power and hitting limitations. Either A - car blows or B car hops off road or torque steers into highway median.

Though I do think 320 whp is the "safe" sweet spot.

I have to ask why Ford Performance only increased peak by 25. Maybe they thought after that it would require additional bolts ons like inter cooler that would not be warranty friendly.

Regs said:

Difference between dyno power and hitting limitations. Either A - car blows or B car hops off road or torque steers into highway median.

Though I do think 320 whp is the "safe" sweet spot.

I have to ask why Ford Performance only increased peak by 25. Maybe they thought after that it would require additional bolts ons like inter cooler that would not be warranty friendly.

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Peak is not everything. I ran a Procal tune on my 12' 5.0 and the car went from running 12.90@110 to 12.30@115 with nothing else. Peak was less than 25hp but overall a completely different car.

Red Turtle said:

Peak is not everything. I ran a Procal tune on my 12' 5.0 and the car went from running 12.90@110 to 12.30@115 with nothing else. Peak was less than 25hp but overall a completely different car.

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Exactly! It's the broad under the curve improvement where you really see a difference and the FP tune does pretty well at that.

jbailer said:

Exactly! It's the broad under the curve improvement where you really see a difference and the FP tune does pretty well at that.

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That's what I've been trying tell people. Peak numbers are meaningless. What matters is the area UNDER THE CURVE. You must integrate the wave form to see what the area under the curve really is.

That area is the total power delivered over each gear from x rpm to y rpm. Many of the 1/4 mile calculators out there are no longer valid for newer engine designs because they assume a relative peaky power curve of older V8 designs.

On a side note, I wanted to say that the top end of the FP tune seems much stronger than their engine dyno would indicate. Here's why I think Fox got the numbers he did and why there's a difference: I think he did a 4th gear run and he also had a FMIC which still makes a very substantial difference in allowing the FP tune to maximize power.

That IC really starts to have issues with not just heat soak, but flow as well once you start to push the turbo towards the top of its efficiency range, you need to keep the pressure drop to a minimum while maximizing heat transfer. That becomes apparent in the very anemic top end of a factory stock EB, it's not just tuning, it's also hardware.

Really, if you just install the FP tune, your only going to see marginal improvement, you really need a decent FMIC to allow the software to fully open up because it's not going to allow unsafe conditions. Give it those safe conditions and the tune really comes alive. Hopefully I can get mine on the dyno soon, but things are pretty busy right now being a single dad :(.

On the bright side, I just took the car to the dealer for warranty verification and submitted the paperwork, so were now warranty safe :amen: and which is really a nice piece of mind to have. Warranty's don't matter...until you need them!

After blowing by a few new v6 17' camaro's I am a happy guy. I think I was doing 120 mph easy with the tac around 4k rpms. This tune is fun and dangerous at the same time. I also blew by a left lane hog yesterday and I saw a truck with a state gov license plate flash his lights to get around him so he could speed up and track me. Not sure what his intentions where in a pick up truck...maybe call up a interceptor? Would of been the first time being pulled over by a state cop in a dodge pick up.

With all this in mind, I am going to worry a little about this summer. The stock inter cooler was good for stock pressure delivery, but I have a feeling with a quicker spooling turbo that holds all the way to redline, this will change. Not only for power , but just keeping the turbo under safe operating conditions. I hope to get this need for speed out of my blood soon so I can concentrate upgrading the body and suspension. Since upgrading the intercooler is inevitable at this point, might as well add the v8 grill in the front with the bumper off.

I believe you Lion, and now I understand why keeping charge temps cool is important especially now with the turbo engaging quicker and working harder. Also cooler air being pushed on the cylinders would help also for the long run. I will likely opt for a CP-e or mishomoto before summer. Something that fits under the radiator without any other customization. Likely pay a garage 2 hrs of labor to do it because taking off the front bumper looks like a time consuming pita without a lift.

I reset the MPG tracking and hope to see if my fuel economy stays around 26 mpg. Granted I am heavy footed these days with the excitement of the new tune, but I want to find out if keeping the stock airbox was a good idea.

What would happen to my extended 8y/100k if I install the power pack? I know the PW overrides the existing warranty but that's for the 3y/36k. How about for the extended. It's just confusing tbh.

olla said:

What would happen to my extended 8y/100k if I install the power pack? I know the PW overrides the existing warranty but that's for the 3y/36k. How about for the extended. It's just confusing tbh.

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You would best ask the dealership. You need to find a dealership that has worked a lot with aftermarket before, specifically Ford Performance. FP does a piss poor job IMO educating dealers and some dealers flat out don't go near aftermarket. Best to find a dealership near you and ask the service manager what is authorized and what isn't. Don't bother talking to a dealer that has never heard of Ford Performance because you would be wasting your time.

Even though some aftermarket items are authorized under Ford Warranty, some dealerships are ignorant to them.

olla said:

What would happen to my extended 8y/100k if I install the power pack? I know the PW overrides the existing warranty but that's for the 3y/36k. How about for the extended. It's just confusing tbh.

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The answer is actually pretty easy. You purchased the extended warranty and will have that until it expires. This goes for anything, if you make a change, obviously Ford isn't and shouldn't be liable for things that relate to those changes. If there is a problem that directly relates to the FP tune, Ford won't cover it from the time you make the change. FP covers it and once that warranty expires, so does all warranty coverage related to that. You still have your extended warranty just not for things related to changes you've made. So if your AC goes out, it's covered.

Regs said:

After blowing by a few new v6 17' camaro's I am a happy guy. I think I was doing 120 mph easy with the tac around 4k rpms. This tune is fun and dangerous at the same time. I also blew by a left lane hog yesterday and I saw a truck with a state gov license plate flash his lights to get around him so he could speed up and track me. Not sure what his intentions where in a pick up truck...maybe call up a interceptor? Would of been the first time being pulled over by a state cop in a dodge pick up.

With all this in mind, I am going to worry a little about this summer. The stock inter cooler was good for stock pressure delivery, but I have a feeling with a quicker spooling turbo that holds all the way to redline, this will change. Not only for power , but just keeping the turbo under safe operating conditions. I hope to get this need for speed out of my blood soon so I can concentrate upgrading the body and suspension. Since upgrading the intercooler is inevitable at this point, might as well add the v8 grill in the front with the bumper off.

I believe you Lion, and now I understand why keeping charge temps cool is important especially now with the turbo engaging quicker and working harder. Also cooler air being pushed on the cylinders would help also for the long run. I will likely opt for a CP-e or mishomoto before summer. Something that fits under the radiator without any other customization. Likely pay a garage 2 hrs of labor to do it because taking off the front bumper looks like a time consuming pita without a lift.

I reset the MPG tracking and hope to see if my fuel economy stays around 26 mpg. Granted I am heavy footed these days with the excitement of the new tune, but I want to find out if keeping the stock airbox was a good idea.

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The CP-e is the way to go for the stage 1 types if you want to maintain factory appearance and grill shudders, they have the best performance of their types. The MAP street is a close second, also a very good unit. If you don't mind removing the grill shudders, the Levels Gen 3 20x14x3.5 is the best bang for buck you can get still. Same price as CP-e and MAP, but it's a full sized front mount unit, so it's cooling capacity is significantly higher.

While I don't agree with much of the ideologies T+ or other "shop tuners" promote for longevity / reliability (and track record of blowing engines) reasons, he is right about one thing: get as big of a FMIC as you can get. It can't cool below ambient air temps as it's an air to air exchanger, so a unit with more surface area will respond quicker to shed heat soak also prevent it.

The ideal FMIC would cool the charge air to ambient air instantaneously. While no such unit exists, the larger full sized units are closer in responsiveness to the ideal unit. They also have a higher capacity for future upgrades or will be more efficient in less than ideal conditions (aka high ambient and lower speeds like in auto cross).

Heat soak can occur at two different instances:
1. while your idling or moving at low speeds (stop and go, waiting in line at the drag strip), no matter how big the unit, it will begin to absorb heat from around it due lack of air flow.
2. is due to thermal transfer limits. Aka your trying to transfer more heat through it to the ambient air than it is capable of at a given speed. The stage 1 units disadvantage at these power levels is primarily in how fast they respond compared to the larger units

The 20x14x3.5 inch Levels Street core or similar sized units definitely respond quicker, I think SpeedFactory has one that is similar in size and price to the Levels now. The only down side is you will have to give up the active grill shudders and now you can see your inter cooler peaking out behind the front grille

https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/ecoboost/intercooler/speedfactory-racing-2015-ford-ecoboost-mustang-600hp-dual-backdoor-intercooler

http://levelsperformance.com/collections/2015-ford-mustang/products/2015-ford-mustang-ecoboost-direct-bolt-on-intercooler-upgrade

Ford Performance tech said inter coolers and charge pipes do not affect the warranty as it is a cooling system upgrade and not a power adder. The PCM is dynamic and compensates for charge temps already. Charge pipes only increase the efficiency of the flow path and reduce leaks, again not a power adder per say. Your not fooling the PCM by altering a parameter it cannot compensate for.

The user manual itself actually says that all cooling systems must be upgraded for track use, which further backs up this notion. The reason we preach FMIC upgrade first is because the stock unit has issues even on the anemic stock tune, hence why several big auto magazines during their testing all noted this mysterious "Mustang Ecoboosts getting slower" issue. Higher ambient temps exacerbated the poor performance of the stock unit, a FP tune will only run further into its limits. Now, whose up for suspension upgrades?

:cheers:

To further on what Lion said, the FMIC isn't a power adder, it ALLOWS for more power though. When the temperatures increase, the ECU needs to reduce (retard) timing to protect the engine from detonation, reducing power. A couple years ago, when we first started doing these mods, there was a lot of datalogs available where people would chart their charge air temps, the air temp after the intercooler that is actually available for combustion and compare them with the Intake Air Temps over the RPMs on a full pull or at least through 3rd gear. It was very easy to see the benefits of the bigger intercoolers, the full face or 2-step ones. The little stick intercoolers are definitely an improvement over stock but the bigger intercoolers really shined. I bought the ATM which I don't think is available any more but it makes a huge difference. Although it makes more a difference for most of the pro tunes because they spin the turbo faster for more boost. Obviously that causes more heat. The Ford Performance tune doesn't increase the boost, it keeps it working in what they feel is a more efficient range. That may partially be because of the limitations of the stock intercooler.

Thanks [MENTION=15518]jbailer[/MENTION] and [MENTION=24468]Regs[/MENTION].

How about this?

https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/display/PRS/COBB+Tuning+Ford+Ecoboost+Mustang+FMIC

Don't need to remove the shutters with it either.

NP olla.

Regs said:

How about this?

https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wiki/display/PRS/COBB+Tuning+Ford+Ecoboost+Mustang+FMIC

Don't need to remove the shutters with it either.

NP olla.

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To me, that is about the same as the one from MAP, CP-e and others. Certainly a larger core and better than the stock but not as good as the larger front FMICs. If you have and are worried about keeping the active grill shutters, I don't think any of those are bad choices. I don't have the shutters with the 50 Yr AP so never ran into that issue. It seems I remember people saying when they removed the shutters, they were getting a code. I'm not sure what needed to be done to get past it. If it was in the tune, that would definitely be a concern as we don't have that flexibility with the ProCal.

Regs said:

After blowing by a few new v6 17' camaro's I am a happy guy. I think I was doing 120 mph easy with the tac around 4k rpms. This tune is fun and dangerous at the same time. I also blew by a left lane hog yesterday and I saw a truck with a state gov license plate flash his lights to get around him so he could speed up and track me. Not sure what his intentions where in a pick up truck...maybe call up a interceptor? Would of been the first time being pulled over by a state cop in a dodge pick up.

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Is the speed limit on the FP tune capped at 120 or does it go higher? I don't think my car will go past 120.

I would always pull over these days... too many cameras. Plus, if he/she put on the lights and you outrun but they have an accident and die, you are charged. But anyway... lol

With all this in mind, I am going to worry a little about this summer. The stock inter cooler was good for stock pressure delivery, but I have a feeling with a quicker spooling turbo that holds all the way to redline, this will change. Not only for power , but just keeping the turbo under safe operating conditions. I hope to get this need for speed out of my blood soon so I can concentrate upgrading the body and suspension. Since upgrading the intercooler is inevitable at this point, might as well add the v8 grill in the front with the bumper off.

Click to expand...

If you are on the track, you definitely need an intercooler.

If not on the track or racing, you can replace, if it makes you feel good. I've ran the heck out my car on the road/hwy and don't see the mystical issues people talk about.

jtmat said:

If you are on the track, you definitely need an intercooler.

If not on the track or racing, you can replace, if it makes you feel good. I've ran the heck out my car on the road/hwy and don't see the mystical issues people talk about.

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LOL how would you know?