Whipple belt chirp

Whipple had suggested to machine the rear spacers down that sit between the idler plate and the water pump / timing cover, I see a 2 fold problem by doing that :

1) The belt is riding in the middle of the top 2 idlers and it's riding all the way back on the lower idler, if I move the entire bracket towards the engine the top 2 idlers will have the belt riding on the forward edge and the lower one will be in the middle.

2) The tensioner is mounted to the same mounting plate as the idlers and by machining the spacers between the idler plate and the water pump / timing cover the tensioner will force the belt back towards the engine and cause a misalignment of the belt.

3) I know they engineered the kit and perhaps there was no other way to mount the tensioner but IMO it would have been better to keep the idler plate as is and mount the tensioner on another bracket on it's own mounted off the timing cover. That way the variance in the stock casting would be decreased greatly as you'd be dealing with 1 point and not 5 like on the water pump / timing cover. The smooth idlers don't dictate where the belt rides so the variance there would have no bearing on belt alignment, the problem stems from the tensioner being mounted to the same plate that has the misalignment due to the variance in the water pump / timing cover. That would be eliminated if the tensioner was on it's own mounting surface.

RogerS550 said:

I noticed mine chirps when the portion of the belt with the lettering on it goes around the supercharger pulley. Is that common with this issue? I haven't approached Whipple about getting the issue fixed until I see you guys have put a couple of thousand miles and report back that yours has been fixed. Hoping the new tensioner does the trick

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Hard to say there could be a variance in the width of the belt and that could be why it chirps in that spot, these belt are not made 6 rib they are cut from wider pieces. Are you running the longer belt or the new shorter one K060891 ? The shorter belt may help you as the belt will only pass the water pump pulley once instead of twice, the reason is the water pump pulley has a guard on either side and when it passes over then under it there is more chance for belt squeal or chirp due to more contact area. The factory water pump pulley can have some wobble to it from the factory and this can amplify the issue.

Still running the longer belt. I bought the kit Christmas 2015, just after they switched to the new stands. The belt had a constant whir for the first 2k miles, then it started chirping. Since the chirp goes away when the engine compartment gets fully heat soaked, I have just been living with the noise pending notification of a permanent fix

F1scamp said:

Pro5.0. Have you tried loosening the supercharger and pushing it forwards? If i remember right there is some wiggle room. From the pics it looks like it may help your issues?

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pro 5.0 said:

Yes when I installed the head unit I pulled it all the way forward, the lower intake manifold has minor movement in it. I anticipated a problem like this would arise as this is the 4 th Whipple I have owned that's why I brought the blower all the way forward. The ROUSH charger that I had on mu 07 GT actually had dowel pins on the lower intake to align the head unit.

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I too noticed the lower and SC have some wiggle room when installin, when mine was bolted down I still had about 2mm gap from the top plate to SC bolting location. I never shimmed it either and now wonder if I should so it doesn't pull the plate in at the top towards the motor.

pro 5.0 said:

Hard to say there could be a variance in the width of the belt and that could be why it chirps in that spot, these belt are not made 6 rib they are cut from wider pieces. Are you running the longer belt or the new shorter one K060891 ? The shorter belt may help you as the belt will only pass the water pump pulley once instead of twice, the reason is the water pump pulley has a guard on either side and when it passes over then under it there is more chance for belt squeal or chirp due to more contact area. The factory water pump pulley can have some wobble to it from the factory and this can amplify the issue.

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Yup water pump wobbles for sure so I replaced it with the MMR piece, but haven't run it ret since the change.

zuki_dan said:

I would rather have the short routing as well but I figured it was worth a try with the long routing. It did fix how it rides on the first idler pulley and has centered the belt on that idler. I am interested in your results from machining the spacer down, I had though of doing this also.

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I would again prefer to move the idler plate in at the bottom, I would be happy to send pre machined spacers for you to try which I feel will resolve issue. But there is no issue with the longer belt, it has been tried and trued.

pro 5.0 said:

Whipple had suggested to machine the rear spacers down that sit between the idler plate and the water pump / timing cover, I see a 2 fold problem by doing that :

1) The belt is riding in the middle of the top 2 idlers and it's riding all the way back on the lower idler, if I move the entire bracket towards the engine the top 2 idlers will have the belt riding on the forward edge and the lower one will be in the middle.

2) The tensioner is mounted to the same mounting plate as the idlers and by machining the spacers between the idler plate and the water pump / timing cover the tensioner will force the belt back towards the engine and cause a misalignment of the belt.

3) I know they engineered the kit and perhaps there was no other way to mount the tensioner but IMO it would have been better to keep the idler plate as is and mount the tensioner on another bracket on it's own mounted off the timing cover. That way the variance in the stock casting would be decreased greatly as you'd be dealing with 1 point and not 5 like on the water pump / timing cover. The smooth idlers don't dictate where the belt rides so the variance there would have no bearing on belt alignment, the problem stems from the tensioner being mounted to the same plate that has the misalignment due to the variance in the water pump / timing cover. That would be eliminated if the tensioner was on it's own mounting surface.

Click to expand...

More than likely the plate is crooked, you just can't see it. By machining spacers it will become flat. I've already done this, I'm speaking from experience. Again as I've said I would be more than happy to send you parts to take the guessing game out of it.

Many are making this a much larger issue than what it is. The large issue is the noise, we've fixed it along with given a far better part. Any misalignment at that point is minimal and only a few will experience any issue. Those few, we can quickly and easily resolve. There is room designed in the system for some misalignment as it's impossible for production to be perfect as he OEM components are not perfect. The new tensioner takes us back to basics as it was the biggest problem on noise. There is reasonable misalignment and unreasonable. We will work with anything who has these issues.

Whipple SC said:

More than likely the plate is crooked, you just can't see it. By machining spacers it will become flat. I've already done this, I'm speaking from experience. Again as I've said I would be more than happy to send you parts to take the guessing game out of it.

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I will take you up on that offer and I have also found that 2 of the smooth idlers have excessive bearing clearance causing them to have run out causing a wobble and that is making the belt walk when running.

pro 5.0 said:

I will take you up on that offer and I have also found that 2 of the smooth idlers have excessive bearing clearance causing them to have run out causing a wobble and that is making the belt walk when running.

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No problem, please email me and I'll take care of Monday.

OK I have now installed a new longer belt using the old routing, pic's are attached below. You can see that the belt is tracking parallel on all three smooth idlers and it lines up perfectly to the water pump pulley. The belt is now riding close to the center of the idler closest to the tensioner. The belt walk is almost completely gone there are 2 smooth idlers that have excessive bearing clearance and you can watch them wobble as the car is idling, one is just under the throttle body and the other is the idler that replaces the stock plastic one on the drivers side. I know that those idlers are just stamped OEM style but to be brand new and no driving miles on the car that is pretty poor quality control from the manufacturer of those pulleys be it GATES or DAYCO not any fault of WHIPPLE'S. I can only imagine what will happen under a load situation with a few miles on the car, that definitely explains why some people are having bearing noise problems and notchy pulleys due to bearing damage. I don't know if a better quality bearing is required or maybe I just got a couple of bad ones, or possibly a good quality set of billet idlers with better bearings is in order possibly even double bearing idlers. The only thing that remains to be seen is if the belt will develop a squeal or squeak with the old belt routing but it is as quiet as a mouse right now. I would like to try the machined Whipple spacers and go back to the shorter belt and see if the alignment issue on that lower idler closest to the tensioner gets resolved. As it sits right now with the old belt routing the belt is tracking true like it should.

Whipple SC said:

More than likely the plate is crooked, you just can't see it. By machining spacers it will become flat. I've already done this, I'm speaking from experience. Again as I've said I would be more than happy to send you parts to take the guessing game out of it.

Many are making this a much larger issue than what it is. The large issue is the noise, we've fixed it along with given a far better part. Any misalignment at that point is minimal and only a few will experience any issue. Those few, we can quickly and easily resolve. There is room designed in the system for some misalignment as it's impossible for production to be perfect as he OEM components are not perfect. The new tensioner takes us back to basics as it was the biggest problem on noise. There is reasonable misalignment and unreasonable. We will work with anything who has these issues.

Click to expand...

I just want to be clear that I am in no way trying to go against what you are saying, I just wanted to share my experience and viewpoint so that others that are struggling with a problem may benefit from it. There is no I in team and sometimes someone else may shed some light onto a problem. I appreciate you going to bat and resolving the tensioner issue and as I said before this is my 4 th Whipple and I will continue to support your company thanks for all your input and help.:cheers:

pro 5.0 said:

OK I have now installed a new longer belt using the old routing, pic's are attached below. You can see that the belt is tracking parallel on all three smooth idlers and it lines up perfectly to the water pump pulley. The belt is now riding close to the center of the idler closest to the tensioner. The belt walk is almost completely gone there are 2 smooth idlers that have excessive bearing clearance and you can watch them wobble as the car is idling, one is just under the throttle body and the other is the idler that replaces the stock plastic one on the drivers side. I know that those idlers are just stamped OEM style but to be brand new and no driving miles on the car that is pretty poor quality control from the manufacturer of those pulleys be it GATES or DAYCO not any fault of WHIPPLE'S. I can only imagine what will happen under a load situation with a few miles on the car, that definitely explains why some people are having bearing noise problems and notchy pulleys due to bearing damage. I don't know if a better quality bearing is required or maybe I just got a couple of bad ones, or possibly a good quality set of billet idlers with better bearings is in order possibly even double bearing idlers. The only thing that remains to be seen is if the belt will develop a squeal or squeak with the old belt routing but it is as quiet as a mouse right now. I would like to try the machined Whipple spacers and go back to the shorter belt and see if the alignment issue on that lower idler closest to the tensioner gets resolved. As it sits right now with the old belt routing the belt is tracking true like it should.

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So just switching to the longer belt routing solved your misalignment issue and belt noise? or did I miss something.

pro 5.0 said:

I just want to be clear that I am in no way trying to go against what you are saying, I just wanted to share my experience and viewpoint so that others that are struggling with a problem may benefit from it. There is no I in team and sometimes someone else may shed some light onto a problem. I appreciate you going to bat and resolving the tensioner issue and as I said before this is my 4 th Whipple and I will continue to support your company thanks for all your input and help.:cheers:

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Very much understood and it's appreciated, we love the support and it's always beneficial to work with someone that is knowledgeable as more minds on the issue can help rectify it much quicker.

I would just rather supply fix it parts to lessen the burden on any customer of ours, although time may not always permit it. But email me and on monday I'll send you a host of items so it will be very easy for you to have the perfect system. It's extremely close right now! :cheers:

Roh92cp said:

So just switching to the longer belt routing solved your misalignment issue and belt noise? or did I miss something.

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The belt noise is resolved with the tensioner, no question.

The longer belt routing, the original design will help track better on the lower smooth idler between the water pump and tensioner due to it coming off the water pump guided by the ribs. This does not change tracking at crank pulley or SC pulley.

The water pump alignment, which is off from the factory was a source of the noise, although not the only one. When coupled with the tight space and the tensioner not tracking always straight, the combo was one of a few sources of noise which is why we changed it. There was no other disadvantage of it. Now that the tensioner has resolved the tracking issue and noise, the long belt is a possible solution in some cases where there may be some misalignment.

pro 5.0 said:

I am going to NAPA this morning as they have the K061058HD green belt in stock which is the longer one it is about 16 inches longer than the K060891 for the shorter belt routing. Even though the belt will be longer I believe that there will be better belt control over that idler as the water pump pulley will guide it better and possibly get rid of the BELT WALK in that area, it's worth a try if not I will machine down the spacer for that 1 idler as planned. It would take me 10 years to put 3000 miles on my car lol as it's just a toy, I will report back with my findings with the longer belt. I would assume that the adjustable idler on the drivers side has to sit higher up with the longer belt as the belt leaves the balancer then goes underneath that idler around to the water pump.

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I left the adjustable tensioner in the full vertical position when installing the longer belt. There is about a fingers width of clearance between the belts by the adjustable tensioner and the auto tensioner is compressed more now approximately 85-90% compressed. I thought about adjusting the manual tensioner down a little but figured that would compress the auto tensioner even more.

O'reilly's had my gates K061058 in stock. I didn't get the HD belt because I would have had to order one and the standard gates belt was $32.

Whipple SC said:

The belt noise is resolved with the tensioner, no question.

The longer belt routing, the original design will help track better on the lower smooth idler between the water pump and tensioner due to it coming off the water pump guided by the ribs. This does not change tracking at crank pulley or SC pulley.

The water pump alignment, which is off from the factory was a source of the noise, although not the only one. When coupled with the tight space and the tensioner not tracking always straight, the combo was one of a few sources of noise which is why we changed it. There was no other disadvantage of it. Now that the tensioner has resolved the tracking issue and noise, the long belt is a possible solution in some cases where there may be some misalignment.

Click to expand...

So is it recommended to use the longer belt with a new tensioner? I asked for a new belt with the tensioner, so I'm wondering what I'll be getting.