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Gt 5.0 vs 2017 Camaro 1LE

Competition Orange

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Yikes MSRP to MSRP! I'm guessing you compare GT350's at MSRP too? By MSRP the gap from 1LE to GT350 is approx $10k but in reality its $25k! SMH!
GT350s can be had pretty regularly at MSRP. I could have had a 16 at MSRP, and without much trouble, a 17...

Not looking to argue with you bud. However you might want to keep in mind that life's not as cut and dry as Spec sheets and MSRP's.

Sorry. I just read back a few pages to realize this guy is ThePill's under study. LOL!
I agree on both points.
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Norm Peterson

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Thanks, yep I would like to get into it eventually. I have friends who tracks and they never fail to mention the spin outs, going off coures.. it's def. intimidating!
You really need to find new friends. People who track and focus on explaining how to do things right instead of reporting mistakes as evidence of their manliness or courage in the face of admitted risk. And if mention of a spin or a 4-off does come up from said new acquaintances, you need to do your part by trying to learn what the driver involved should have been doing differently. And then putting that in your driver's skill tool kit.


Canyons are okay.. everyone drives crazy out there so it's pretty dangerous too. I'll admit I like both drag and track but if I had to choose, I'm more enamored by the straights.
At a semi-educated guess, you might eventually be able to consistently corner 40% or so harder at a road course track day than you'll ever do on the street. That's a good size step beyond street driving, one that you simply can't see from where you've been.


"Best bang for your buck" - least price paid with the most most offered.

Doesn't mean it has to be the fastest.
It does mean that in some absolute sense there has to be enough 'bang' to suit the use you're going to put it to. You don't like the 1LE, I get that. It's focus is not straight lines, and I guess you've since figured out that you don't have enough of the right experience to properly evaluate it for what it is good at.

For the person who does want to take in an occasional track day but doesn't want to re-engineer his 1SS's suspension, wheel & tire package, and so on, it does represent pretty good bang for the buck. Intentionally saving $6500 by sticking with a 'regular SS' with tracking an intended use, knowing that from the get-go that a 1LE will simply drive away from your SS on just about any road course, does not.


Your friend's S197 could stand further development . . .


Norm
 

Hack

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For the person who does want to take in an occasional track day but doesn't want to re-engineer his 1SS's suspension, wheel & tire package, and so on, it does represent pretty good bang for the buck. Intentionally saving $6500 by sticking with a 'regular SS' with tracking an intended use, knowing that from the get-go that a 1LE will simply drive away from your SS on just about any road course, does not.
Norm
$6500 will buy a lot of track days. There's no need to be the fastest on the track and having a faster car doesn't necessarily mean it will be more fun to drive. More track days might be more fun than having a slightly faster car.
 

Norm Peterson

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Somehow I doubt that anybody who is committed enough to spend $6500 on track days will remain satisfied with what's basically base level suspension/wheels/tires. Either he'll regret that he hadn't chosen differently or he'll put a big part of that $6500 into the above as upgrades.


Norm
 

Hack

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Somehow I doubt that anybody who is committed enough to spend $6500 on track days will remain satisfied with what's basically base level suspension/wheels/tires. Either he'll regret that he hadn't chosen differently or he'll put a big part of that $6500 into the above as upgrades.


Norm
I disagree. I think that if you start going to a number of track days, you will have to start replacing tires and brakes regularly and that will be plenty of spending $$ for at least some people. Also, the car itself will not last forever being used a lot at the track, and replacing a car is a big expense as well.

If $6500 means nothing and the person can afford that many upgrades as well as consumables and track days, they are probably in the market for a 'vette instead of a Camaro.

I do think some people will have to have the 1LE, but I'm saying there are legitimate reasons to not do it. I understand your argument is that NOBODY would go that way. That is what I disagree with. For example, a couple years ago I bought a base GT rather than getting the PP option. I went to the track, had fun and didn't modify the car. I thought the base GT was plenty of fun at the track without any modifications.
 

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bluebeastsrt

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I disagree. I think that if you start going to a number of track days, you will have to start replacing tires and brakes regularly and that will be plenty of spending $$ for at least some people. Also, the car itself will not last forever being used a lot at the track, and replacing a car is a big expense as well.

If $6500 means nothing and the person can afford that many upgrades as well as consumables and track days, they are probably in the market for a 'vette instead of a Camaro.

I do think some people will have to have the 1LE, but I'm saying there are legitimate reasons to not do it. I understand your argument is that NOBODY would go that way. That is what I disagree with. For example, a couple years ago I bought a base GT rather than getting the PP option. I went to the track, had fun and didn't modify the car. I thought the base GT was plenty of fun at the track without any modifications.

Amen. You can burn thru a grand easily on a track day. If your pushing hard you'll wipe a set of tires and brakes. Three to five track days later. Your $6500 is gone.
 

JohnnyUtah

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Amen. You can burn thru a grand easily on a track day. If your pushing hard you'll wipe a set of tires and brakes. Three to five track days later. Your $6500 is gone.
In my experience, a track day generally costs about $500. That's about $200 for fees, $100 in gas, and about $200 in consumables in the form of brake pads and tires per day.

Of course, the softer the tire, the faster the car, and the harder you push, these costs go up. Depends on the car, driver, and tires used.

I could see someone who was just getting started and thinking about tracking buying a 1SS, but if you have some experience you are likely going to want the 1LE package. It's worth it strictly for the suspension, wheels, tires, and brake upgrades. The rest is an added bonus.
 

Norm Peterson

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I disagree. I think that if you start going to a number of track days, you will have to start replacing tires and brakes regularly and that will be plenty of spending $$ for at least some people. Also, the car itself will not last forever being used a lot at the track, and replacing a car is a big expense as well.
The costs of consumables have to be covered no matter what you're showing up in. I suppose you could attempt to estimate some sort of expense difference between running a 1LE vs an SS, though there is some risk of the difference turning out to favor the 1LE instead.

Realistically, those things really fall under 'maintenance' and don't affect whether the 1LE is inherently a decent bang for the buck or not.


Norm
 

bluebeastsrt

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In my experience, a track day generally costs about $500. That's about $200 for fees, $100 in gas, and about $200 in consumables in the form of brake pads and tires per day.

Of course, the softer the tire, the faster the car, and the harder you push, these costs go up. Depends on the car, driver, and tires used.

I could see someone who was just getting started and thinking about tracking buying a 1SS, but if you have some experience you are likely going to want the 1LE package. It's worth it strictly for the suspension, wheels, tires, and brake upgrades. The rest is an added bonus.
I'm not debating bang for the buck. I think the 1LE is a bargain. I just hated the huge out put of cash. Ever time I did a track day. When I was into it 10 years ago. It's the reason I just went drag racing 100% of the time moving forward. Cheaper in the long run and less likely to wreck the car if your going hard.
 

TrackpackGT

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My local Chebby dealer has 3 1LE's on the lot about 6 miles from my house. I was drooling over the silver one. They all have the performance computer and the stupid hood hash mark. Still too expensive for my blood at $42k. (MSRP 45k)
Most folks who talk about what does what numbers wise haven't experienced how much better the "slowest" of the bunch is than they can physically drive on track. It will be the biggest piece of humble pie you've ever eaten if you show up for a HPDE event with your statistically fastest car in your group and you get passed by the slowest. You don't have to set lap records or even be "fast" to have a blast.
 

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Hack

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My local Chebby dealer has 3 1LE's on the lot about 6 miles from my house. I was drooling over the silver one. They all have the performance computer and the stupid hood hash mark. Still too expensive for my blood at $42k. (MSRP 45k)
Most folks who talk about what does what numbers wise haven't experienced how much better the "slowest" of the bunch is than they can physically drive on track. It will be the biggest piece of humble pie you've ever eaten if you show up for a HPDE event with your statistically fastest car in your group and you get passed by the slowest. You don't have to set lap records or even be "fast" to have a blast.
Well said. That's what I was trying to get at as well. You don't need the stickiest tires, best brakes, most HP, etc. to have a lot of fun at a road course. I really love my GT350, but I would have been smarter to buy a GT as it is great on the road course for a lot less $$. Then I would have had more cash left over for track days.
 
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Seceda91

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I would love to start hitting the tracks someday but as most of you have mentioned, it's not cheap. I personally think it's more wear and tear than hitting the drags. Hmm, maybe i can find a cheap Miata with to practice with.

Around here and with the guys in my group, we're about 70/30.. 70% are enamored by drag racing capabilities and 30% handling.

Pretty much all my racing (In Mexico) have been drags.. I've never met/encountered anyone who said "3 honks at the off/on ramp please"
 

Norm Peterson

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It's more wear on some things, less on others. It's an entirely different mindset at the HPDE level, where it's not about the urgency of outright racing, or abusive shifting techniques to save fractions of seconds, or "beating" everybody else in your session . . . but about developing your driving techniques and situational awareness.

Among drivers on track at an HPDE session, it's about co-operation rather than competition. There isn't anything like it in street driving (and there are times when you wish track day courtesy was something that everybody practiced on the street).


Norm
 

ArtRios87

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I honestly doubt the V6 1LE is faster than a PP Mustang GT. Car and Driver Lightning Lap tends to favor GM cars and for proof is the times between the Z28 and the GT350R. We all know that the GT350R was faster both at Laguna Seca (1:36:11 vs 1:37:82) and Chuckwalla (1:57:87 vs 1:59:03) when both cars were tested by Randy Pobst. However when the GT350R was tested by Car and Driver, the GT350R time of 2:51:8 was slower than the Z28 which lap the course in 2:50:9 that to me seems odd especially considering that Car and Driver doesn't use a professional driver and there the biggest difference and why the times by Car and Driver are to be taken with a grain of salt.

If both the v6 1LE and the GTPP were put against each other at any track, my money is on the PP GT. Now when it comes to the GT350 and the 1LE then I myself would reserve my judgment however if I was given the option to choose between the two, I know the snake would be my pick even if the 1LE had a 10k bag of money inside of it.
 

Tm@c1965

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When I used to race, I had a race car

Race car in that it was an old stripped down 88 Mustang GT that was not driven on the street. It was not pretty. I didn't worry about damaging it. I think those worried about economical ways to race....should consider building a race car. I don't track my SRT. I drive it aggressively, but I refuse to thrash it.
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