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Ford to Cut 10% of Global Workforce

lemers

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Well labor is usually the biggest expence for a company and the easiest to reduce and grow as needed.
 

dron_jones

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The quality of upcoming cars is going to suffer quite a bit due to this - IMO. Less people for the same volume and they're going to work thinking "Am I next to go ?". Saw that first hand in the past.
 

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Reflects everything wrong with corporate America. Instead of protecting their workers, they're pleasing their shareholders.
 

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dron_jones

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Reflects everything wrong with corporate America. Instead of protecting their workers, they're pleasing their shareholders.
I'll take my chances with capitalism
 

cosmo

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I'll take my chances with capitalism
I'm not saying do away with capitalism.

I'm saying that do you really need to shit on your workers while giving a blowjob to your shareholders? Isn't the blowjob enough? Maybe fields shouldn't get a 19% pay raise the month before he fires 20000 people.
 

dron_jones

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I'm not saying do away with capitalism.

I'm saying that do you really need to shit on your workers while giving a blowjob to your shareholders? Isn't the blowjob enough? Maybe fields shouldn't get a 19% pay raise the month before he fires 20000 people.
Would it be better to keep everyone employed at the peril of the success of the entire organization? Is that a more responsible decision? Sometimes the herd needs to be trimmed so that the herd as a whole can become stronger.
 

cosmo

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Would it be better to keep everyone employed at the peril of the success of the entire organization? Is that a more responsible decision? Sometimes the herd needs to be trimmed so that the herd as a whole can become stronger.
There is no peril of the entire organization. Ford has a fat profit margin and overall still improves as a business. Everyone in the auto industry knows about the upcoming retirement exodus, forcing the majority of them to go first and cutting some other people to try to look "better" to shareholders is just poor showing of commitment to their engineers. Especially when the CEO received a 19% raise, which is equivalent to ~$3.65 million. Or 48 workers. With no pension or anything of that nature being offered to Ford engineers, I wouldn't be surprised to see a high turnover rate in the next 5 years or so with actions like this. With that comes lost experience to the company and retraining of fresh workers (meaning poor quality for their first 1-2 years of work).

When you look at the compensation that Ford awarded their engineers in comparison to Chrysler and GM, it's laughable. I'm an engineer in the automotive business, with friends across each of the major 3 automakers. Ford's typical salary grade 5 bonus this year was projected to be $3750, of which they delivered ~$3500. An equivalent worker at Chrysler or GM received ~$8000. That's embarrassing, especially when they go on to fire 20000 people just a month after giving that out.
 

dron_jones

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There is no peril of the entire organization. Ford has a fat profit margin and overall still improves as a business. Everyone in the auto industry knows about the upcoming retirement exodus, forcing the majority of them to go first and cutting some other people to try to look "better" to shareholders is just poor showing of commitment to their engineers. Especially when the CEO received a 19% raise, which is equivalent to ~$3.65 million. Or 48 workers. With no pension or anything of that nature being offered to Ford engineers, I wouldn't be surprised to see a high turnover rate in the next 5 years or so with actions like this. With that comes lost experience to the company and retraining of fresh workers (meaning poor quality for their first 1-2 years of work).

When you look at the compensation that Ford awarded their engineers in comparison to Chrysler and GM, it's laughable. I'm an engineer in the automotive business, with friends across each of the major 3 automakers. Ford's typical salary grade 5 bonus this year was projected to be $3750, of which they delivered ~$3500. An equivalent worker at Chrysler or GM received ~$8000. That's embarrassing, especially when they go on to fire 20000 people just a month after giving that out.
the bailouts were not so long ago that we can say "there is no peril" as if we cannot remember how close things got to the end for the big 3. The Bailout is exactly what happens when you stop listening to consumers and shareholders in favor of doing what's easy and profitable

What you are describing that is happening at Ford today has been happening for 20+ years across all industries globally. The days of a company taking care of you for your life are over and have been for a long time. The company doesn't owe people anything, and nor do the employees owe the company anything. If what you are saying is true about bonuses and its a big enough deal, employees will leave and ford will adjust, or leave it as is and deal with the turnover. Should the employees be reprimanded for not sticking with the company and jumping ship to the company who will pay them more? of course not, so why would you expect the same loyalty from the company?

Honestly my heart goes out to the people who are laid off, its not an easy thing to go through, i have been on both sides of the table before laying off people and being laid off, but the least productive activity to do is sit around blaming the company, the shareholders, mark fields raise as the reasons why you are where you are. Those that pull up their socks and get back out there will find something and land on their feet. Those that sit around moping as to the reason why it happened to them are probably answering their own question.
 

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cosmo

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the bailouts were not so long ago that we can say "there is no peril" as if we cannot remember how close things got to the end for the big 3. The Bailout is exactly what happens when you stop listening to consumers and shareholders in favor of doing what's easy and profitable

What you are describing that is happening at Ford today has been happening for 20+ years across all industries globally. The days of a company taking care of you for your life are over and have been for a long time. The company doesn't owe people anything, and nor do the employees owe the company anything. If what you are saying is true about bonuses and its a big enough deal, employees will leave and ford will adjust, or leave it as is and deal with the turnover. Should the employees be reprimanded for not sticking with the company and jumping ship to the company who will pay them more? of course not, so why would you expect the same loyalty from the company?

Honestly my heart goes out to the people who are laid off, its not an easy thing to go through, i have been on both sides of the table before laying off people and being laid off, but the least productive activity to do is sit around blaming the company, the shareholders, mark fields raise as the reasons why you are where you are. Those that pull up their socks and get back out there will find something and land on their feet. Those that sit around moping as to the reason why it happened to them are probably answering their own question.
Shareholders do not represent when a company is actually going bankrupt. The stock market is the representation of what the shareholders think a company is worth. I.e. Tesla. Tesla does not have the liquid equity to compare to GM or Ford or even Chrysler. Tesla does not have the profits, or sales to compare. What it has is market capitalization which is again, based off what shareholders think.

It has been happening, no doubt. The bailout wasn't even 10 years ago now (although Ford's loan was). However when you listen to how Ford got around the bailout, it was due in large part to the same employees that they are now giving forced-early retirements to. We'll see if the severance packages are actually worthwhile or not (the early ones during the bailout were). The employees during that time worked many hours of overtime without compensation (above the salaried requirement of 50 hours before overtime must be compensated). They didn't get pay raises, bonuses, anything of the sort. So Ford rode that "no bailout" line hard and it rose their stocks up. But that effect is dying out on the shareholders and the public and Ford is starting to turn on the same people who it relied on. Meanwhile they are giving raises to those who captain the ship called "Ford" and are steering it in the direction which shareholders don't like? That's disappointing.
 

dron_jones

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Shareholders do not represent when a company is actually going bankrupt. The stock market is the representation of what the shareholders think a company is worth. I.e. Tesla. Tesla does not have the liquid equity to compare to GM or Ford or even Chrysler. Tesla does not have the profits, or sales to compare. What it has is market capitalization which is again, based off what shareholders think.

It has been happening, no doubt. The bailout wasn't even 10 years ago now (although Ford's loan was). However when you listen to how Ford got around the bailout, it was due in large part to the same employees that they are now giving forced-early retirements to. We'll see if the severance packages are actually worthwhile or not (the early ones during the bailout were). The employees during that time worked many hours of overtime without compensation (above the salaried requirement of 50 hours before overtime must be compensated). They didn't get pay raises, bonuses, anything of the sort. So Ford rode that "no bailout" line hard and it rose their stocks up. But that effect is dying out on the shareholders and the public and Ford is starting to turn on the same people who it relied on. Meanwhile they are giving raises to those who captain the ship called "Ford" and are steering it in the direction which shareholders don't like? That's disappointing.
I am very aware of market cap and how it works, but the implication that it is not one of the meaningful criteria with which to judge an organizations overall health i believe is inaccurate. Comparing to Tesla is an easy comparison because it is such a drastic example with such a high market cap despite such low sales/profit and assets, but Tesla is functioning less like an automotive company and more as a tech which as many know are highly speculative. If you made a comparison between more standard automotive entities, Ford/Toyota/VW/GM, you would see that market cap provides a very well rounded view of the market valuation of the organizations.

When you talk about working overtime and the salaried requirement of 50hrs, are you saying that salaried employees didn't get paid any overtime despite the fact that they were working more than 50hrs per week? If this is what you are saying my response would be that this is status quo for most of the salaried workforce out there. It also makes complete sense that the company wouldn't be handing out raises or bonuses if the company was in rough financial shape.

The one point we do agree on is the size of CEO compensation packages. While most of it does come in the way of stocks/options/LTI's so heavily tied to share performance, i do agree that some of the comp packages have gotten out of hand. That being said, a great CEO with a strong vision can definitely be the difference maker for the company, and while i think ford has some rough waters to navigate, i do believe that Mark Fields has a strong vision for where he wants to take the company and i see them taking the right steps to get there. Time will tell if it was the right direction or not.
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