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Concept: Eaton M90 supercharged V6

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zackmd1

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I bought my whole kit used for $2900 :D
See now that is the price it should be! But as fuse stated... It would be the luck of the draw to find one at that price...
 
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Funny, I was daydreaming about this exact concept just yesterday :D

Although used M90's are cheap enough, I'm not certain it has the airflow capacity to make a big enough difference on our 3.7 to be worth the cost and effort of such a project. I'm not trying to talk the OP out of this, just mentioning my own opinion on the subject, and I may be wrong on the airflow issue so if someone knows for a fact that the M90 can make decent boost on the 3.7 above 3k rpm (which is where these engines really wake up) I'd like to hear about it.

Now, the M112 from the '03 Cobra was pushing enough air through the intercooler to make 390hp from a 4.6L that was rated at 300hp in NA form, which seems pretty well suited for boosting our 300hp V6, and I've seen it for sale fairly cheap as well, but without knowing the dimensions on that blower I can only guess if it can be made to fit.

I like the idea of swapping in a complete 3.5 Ecoboost engine, even with a horribly restrictive exhaust, undersized turbos and the smallest exhaust manifolds I've seen it still manages 420 ft lb factory stock, so there's a lot of potential waiting to be tapped here.

Then I figured as long as I'm daydreaming, if I did a V8 swap I'd like to go with the 5.8L aluminum block, top it with street ported coyote heads and Comp Cams CR cam set then use the MMR gen-x timing set and a sheet metal intake manifold to run it off a 2015 coyote PCM. I figure this should make some serious low end grunt, only issue is the $20k to build it! LOL

The M112 would be the perfect supercharger for this except for the fact that the supercharger is longer then the V6.... :frusty:

Personally I would love to create a 4.7 (289ci) flat plane crank V8 using a coyote as the base and have OEM Gt350 cams driving it. Problem is a custom crank costs at a minimum $2k and then there is the issue of harmonics to deal with...

As for this project, the more I look into the M90 the more it seems as though it just will not be able to provide the power I want.... I am still researching it though as well as researching the EB turbo option.

It seems the main issue with the EB turbos are the restrictive f150 exhaust manifolds. I want to see if I can get a custom header company to reproduce the f150 manifolds in tubular 321 stainless with a 3.7 mustang exhaust flange (since I don't trust my welding skills with headers). That should alleviate the restriction problem in the manifolds and hopefully get a few more HP. Add at a minimum 2.5" exhaust but most likely 3" and I think it would be possible to get over 400HP and a sh*t ton of torque.
 

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If you get that for under $2k it's something I'll probably do in like 3 years, lots of interesting ideas in this thread.
 

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I think I have to revise my opinion on the M90, it might actually be a pretty good choice for a budget FI set up as long as it's a newer generation unit.

I knew the M90 was used on the Tbird supercoupe, which struggled to put out much more than 300 rwhp with the stock blower, and that's what my opinion was based on, but that was a gen1 M90. The latest version of the M90 is actually the blower used in the Roushcharger kit for the 4.6 and in the Roush 427 Mustang. I've also been reading about the GM guys modding their 3800 V6, getting 400+ whp with gen V or ported gen III M90 cases. The main issue they all run into is heat. High IAT has been a consistent problem with the M90, it's improved with each newer generation but still is an issue even on the gen V when boost is high enough to be making 400+ HP, so any project to adapt it to our 3.7 has to include an intercooler.

The gen 1 and 2 units from the Tbird may be the cheapest, and possibly even the easiest to adapt to this application, but IMO they generate too much heat and just aren't efficient enough to consider for this application. The oem GM blowers are fairly cheap also, but would be a nightmare to modify to get one on the 3.7. The best option might be to hunt for a used gen III or later MP90 (Eaton's universal model) or just throw cost limitations out the window and get a TVS 1320 or 1900 for a huge jump in efficiency and HP potential!
 

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So I just went out and test drove a few vehicles today. I test drove both a GT and an EcoBoost. The GT like my previous experience kinda sucked to be honest. Felt as powerful if not a little less powerful then my 6 below 3K RPM. Once you get above 3k it feels better but still not jaw dropping that I was expecting from 100 more HP. Add to that the fact that you can definitely feel the weight on the nose, it wouldn't be worth it in my opinion to swap in a stock coyote. Supercharged coyote is a different story since it should help the low end but that is significantly more cost added to your swap.

The EcoBoost actually felt like the more enjoyable experience to me. Had decent power off the line that can be drastically increased with a tune. Also felt much lighter then the GT and about the same as my 6 (which it should considering there is only a 10lb difference between the two I believe). The EB had the PP package and the suspension was much better then my 6 so upgraded suspension is certainly coming to my car.

All in all after today I think I have finally settled on what I will be doing with my car.... I plan to streamline the process of Turbocharging the V6 with 3.5 EcoBoost parts. I am in talks with GP headers right now on getting a set of tubular headers made that will fit EB turbos and fit inside the S550 engine bay. Hopefully we can get something working that can then be offered for sale for those that want to complete this swap without having to use adapter plates or the restrictive 3.5 manifolds.

As a note to anyone that is considering a coyote swap... Test drive one first like I did before you start investing in the parts required.
 

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So I just went out and test drove a few vehicles today. I test drove both a GT and an EcoBoost. The GT like my previous experience kinda sucked to be honest. Felt as powerful if not a little less powerful then my 6 below 3K RPM. Once you get above 3k it feels better but still not jaw dropping that I was expecting from 100 more HP. Add to that the fact that you can definitely feel the weight on the nose, it wouldn't be worth it in my opinion to swap in a stock coyote. Supercharged coyote is a different story since it should help the low end but that is significantly more cost added to your swap.

The EcoBoost actually felt like the more enjoyable experience to me. Had decent power off the line that can be drastically increased with a tune. Also felt much lighter then the GT and about the same as my 6 (which it should considering there is only a 10lb difference between the two I believe). The EB had the PP package and the suspension was much better then my 6 so upgraded suspension is certainly coming to my car.

All in all after today I think I have finally settled on what I will be doing with my car.... I plan to streamline the process of Turbocharging the V6 with 3.5 EcoBoost parts. I am in talks with GP headers right now on getting a set of tubular headers made that will fit EB turbos and fit inside the S550 engine bay. Hopefully we can get something working that can then be offered for sale for those that want to complete this swap without having to use adapter plates or the restrictive 3.5 manifolds.

As a note to anyone that is considering a coyote swap... Test drive one first like I did before you start investing in the parts required.
Butt dynos are very deceptive and add modern day refinement masks the "feeling of speed" pretty good in modern cars. Ever did multiple passes at the track and your slower feeling passes were actually your better runs while your "faster feeling" passes were slower? Driving your modded V6 might "feel" feel faster (most likely due to significantly less weight) in many scenarios but line the 2 up at the track and with equal drivers the V8 will be much faster across the powerband than the V6. I do understand where you're coming from as my friend who had a stock C6 commented how my modded V6 "hits as hard as his Vette" despite being much slower, he has also rode in a stock S550 Coyote as well as a reference.

I have to agree with you on the feeling of the PP Ecoboost, the suspension was very playful and responsive for the money. When test driving one (MT82/2.3T) when they first came out I literally thought I wasn't driving the 4 banger as it it had a strong torque curve. The only reason I didn't get it because I wanted the bugs to be worked out on the platform. If I was going with a 2018 I would just skip the MT82 and go with a 10 speed/ Ecoboost for a solid DD.

I think you're going the right path turbocharging (despite still being early in development) with good tuning I do not see why you will have any issues. By the time you figure out the mounting and packaging for the roots style you might have well just went with turbocharging or centrifugal for a higher HP ceiling.
 
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Butt dynos are very deceptive and add modern day refinement masks the "feeling of speed" pretty good in modern cars.
Correct but if I am doing that amount of work and spending that much money to swap in a coyote or even just outright purchasing a GT it better F**king feel faster! :lol:

In all seriousness when I was driving the GT, even though it did not feel powerful, it certainly got up to 60 a lot faster then the V6.
 

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Correct but if I am doing that amount of work and spending that much money to swap in a coyote or even just outright purchasing a GT it better F**king feel faster! :lol:

In all seriousness when I was driving the GT, even though it did not feel powerful, it certainly got up to 60 a lot faster then the V6.
I hear you man. That's why Miatas sell despite being low on power. They have good dynamics and a good "sense" of speed.
 

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Custom headers to fit the 3.5l v6 turbos sounds pretty good. I hope it goes well. I'm still bouncing between procharger, engine swap and ecoboost turbo. The torque of the 3.5l v6 turbo add-on is very tempting.
 

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Custom headers to fit the 3.5l v6 turbos sounds pretty good. I hope it goes well. I'm still bouncing between procharger, engine swap and ecoboost turbo. The torque of the 3.5l v6 turbo add-on is very tempting.
GP headers came back today and said they could do it. EB manifolds also arrived today. Terrible design and is easy to see how they can be so much of a restriction. I am hoping by the end of the month I can send them off to GP to get the custom set made. Currently I am working on upgrading/refurbishing my suspension.
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GP headers came back today and said they could do it. EB manifolds also arrived today. Terrible design and is easy to see how they can be so much of a restriction. I am hoping by the end of the month I can send them off to GP to get the custom set made. Currently I am working on upgrading/refurbishing my suspension.
right on man. For your suspension, I highly recommend you to with a take off PP shocks and struts, PP sway bars, PP toe links, aftermarket endlinks, BMR lockout kit, strut tower and cowl brace, and a good set of progressive lowering springs. I went this route and for the minimal expense invested well under 1g the car handles like you wouldn't believe. Complete night and day.
 
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right on man. For your suspension, I highly recommend you to with a take off PP shocks and struts, PP sway bars, PP toe links, aftermarket endlinks, BMR lockout kit, strut tower and cowl brace, and a good set of progressive lowering springs. I went this route and for the minimal expense invested well under 1g the car handles like you wouldn't believe. Complete night and day.
I plan to do GT PP dampers, BMR SP080 springs, PP toe link bushings, OEM end links (not much of a benefit in aftermarket if I am not upgrading sway bars past OEM), and the BMR lockout kit to start off with. Other mods will come down the road but for now that is my list! I just need to source a set of good GT PP dampers.
 

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I plan to do GT PP dampers, BMR SP080 springs, PP toe link bushings, OEM end links (not much of a benefit in aftermarket if I am not upgrading sway bars past OEM), and the BMR lockout kit to start off with. Other mods will come down the road but for now that is my list! I just need to source a set of good GT PP dampers.
in the marketplace I was able to swing a complete PP take off kit (the whole kit with sways) for 350. Added a set of endlinks on an auction with eBay (UPR) for 90 and offered on the lockout kit for 190 on eBay and then finished it with a set vogtland sport lowering springs (1.3 drop) off eBay for 190. couldn't be happier in the handles department.
 

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A bit of insight from the s197 camp, if I may.

There is a small group of us who have been chasing this dream for a very long time, but haven't been able to make it happen for various reasons (mostly they were using the M122 as a starting point, rather than the M90, shoot for the moon, right? lol), most of them can be overcome, but no one wants to do it, they just take the easy way out and go turbo.

You say an M90 won't produce the power you want, BUT, consider this. the TVS 1900 also an eaton blower, but a newer model, is more efficient, cooler, and has a higher power ceiling, and has a case that is the same size as the M90. Same case, different rotors inside, basically. There were a few of the gen 1 s197s that had those X chargers and upgraded the blower unit to the 1900. Just a thought.

Edit: after a little more research, the 1900 is bigger than the M90, however, the TVS1320 seems to be the same size, shouldn't change much though, the 1320 should still have decent power potential.
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