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Concept: Eaton M90 supercharged V6

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zackmd1

zackmd1

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A bit of insight from the s197 camp, if I may.

There is a small group of us who have been chasing this dream for a very long time, but haven't been able to make it happen for various reasons (mostly they were using the M122 as a starting point, rather than the M90, shoot for the moon, right? lol), most of them can be overcome, but no one wants to do it, they just take the easy way out and go turbo.

You say an M90 won't produce the power you want, BUT, consider this. the TVS 1900 also an eaton blower, but a newer model, is more efficient, cooler, and has a higher power ceiling, and has a case that is the same size as the M90. Same case, different rotors inside, basically. There were a few of the gen 1 s197s that had those X chargers and upgraded the blower unit to the 1900. Just a thought.

Edit: after a little more research, the 1900 is bigger than the M90, however, the TVS1320 seems to be the same size, shouldn't change much though, the 1320 should still have decent power potential.
Unfortunately the thing that really killed the concept was the fact that there is no good solution for the lower intake manifold. The current plastic intake manifold will not hold up to a supercharger system mounted on top. I was under the impression that the earlier generation cyclone lower intake manifolds (the aluminum ones) would fit the 3.7. That would have been a perfect setup but unfortunately that is not the case. I simply do not have the tools to fabricate an entire lower intake manifold and contracting the work would be very expensive...
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zackmd1

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Well this project might still be alive! I believe I have a good solution for the lower intake manifold and belt routing. The idea would be to use the lower intake manifold from a transverse mounted 3.5/3.7. Those intakes would reposition the water neck to the rear of the engine which would allow me to delete the rats nest of a water neck in the front of the engine. I could just create a plate for the opening in the block and reroute all the coolant hoses to open up the front of the engine. From there I could extend the accessory drive belt to also run the supercharger (same 6 rib belt that powers the water pump and alternator).

The problem comes in with the height.... A non intercooled setup would be perfect in terms of height only requiring about .5-1" additional clearance. I doubt that setup would be worth it though from all that I am reading about the M90. Even a Gen V likely would require some form of an intercooler in order to make any decent power. An intercooler would of course add about 2"+ to the overall height of the setup.

Bottom line is I need the trufiber a72 hood in order to know exactly what kind of space I have to work with.... Hopefully that will be in the cards for this month.

So what do you guys think? Would a non intercooled m90 running at about 6-7 psi be able to produce numbers close to 375-400whp or should I just go straight for an intercooled setup? The good thing about this project is that it is looking to be quite cheap. Hardware costs should be below the $1000 mark (not including the hood).
 

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How would it for a DD also I personally don't know a lot about supercharged motors but I thank about keeping the engine cool I do hope you can find a way to make it work because I would have this set up
 
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zackmd1

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How would it for a DD also I personally don't know a lot about supercharged motors but I thank about keeping the engine cool I do hope you can find a way to make it work because I would have this set up
The idea is to get the A72 hood and see just what kind of room I am working with. I think I can get the size of an intercooler down to about 1.5" if I use a 1.25" thick core. Total height over the stock injector fuel rails would be about 7". For reference, the stock intake is 4" high over the rails and has about an inch of clearance to the stock hood. So I need the A72 hood to be at least 2" taller in the center. I think that is achievable though since just the internal bracing of the stock hood is about 1.5-2" thick and the A72 does away with internal bracing in this area.

A roots style supercharger should be much better at street power then a procharger. Roots style chargers create boost throughout the entire RPM band (assuming properly sized) where as a procharger has a much more peak boost delivery like a turbo.
 

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I'd go straight for an intercooled setup, if you don't you'll just want to do it later. May as well do it the first go around. It'll run cooler and make more power anyway.
 

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what about a non intercooled, with methonal injection behind the tb....?
 
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zackmd1

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what about a non intercooled, with methonal injection behind the tb....?
I really want to stay away from methanol injection since that is basically just a band aid to the problem rather then a solution. I am trying to read up a bit more on the m90 to see if it would be possible to run 6.5 psi without an intercooler and be ok. From what I am finding so far this does not seem to be the case... An intercooler just makes the entire assembly more complex to fabricate. A non intercooled setup could be as simple as 1-2 aluminum plates.
 

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zackmd1

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A little behind here, but Super Six has on their website a page for ported lower intake manifolds and shows an aluminum version. This confirms that there is an aluminum lower intake that fits the 3.7.

http://supersixmotorsports.com/_pdf/3.8_4.2/SSM2013Cyclonecatrev3IntakeManifolds.pdf
I have seen that as well but I believe it is either their own custom casting or a modified 3.5 intake. I need to confirm if their lower intake manifold moves the water outlet to the rear of the intake. Deleting the large thermostat housing is the best way for belt routing. Not sure if Tom is still active on the site or not...
 

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zackmd1

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sprintex makes a 1.5L twin screw supercharger, maybe you could get in contact with them
Thanks for the tip! Will be sure to contact them. From what I have seen though Twin screw superchargers are crazy expensive... And they are not as beneficial as the price would suggest over a roots style charger... A bit lower temperatures/ a bit more efficient but not drastically so to merit spending $3,000 vs $300.
 

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Thanks for the tip! Will be sure to contact them. From what I have seen though Twin screw superchargers are crazy expensive... And they are not as beneficial as the price would suggest over a roots style charger... A bit lower temperatures/ a bit more efficient but not drastically so to merit spending $3,000 vs $300.
A well designed supercharger kit will be over 5K, if the unit can get you on the higher 3xx whp without rising your IATs to the sky that kit would give the procharger a run for its money and people would bay for that.
 
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zackmd1

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A well designed supercharger kit will be over 5K, if the unit can get you on the higher 3xx whp without rising your IATs to the sky that kit would give the procharger a run for its money and people would bay for that.
Correct and for any retail kit a TVS blower would be the way to go. For prototyping purposes and proof of concept though I think an M90 will do just fine.
 
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zackmd1

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Hey zack, did you give up on the 3.5l? What happened to the custom 3.5l headers?
I didn't give up on them! I am researching both a supercharger setup and a turbo setup. As it stands right now though I think I will moving forward with the supercharger setup unless I hit a snag like hood clearance issues.

I got a quote back from GP headers and it was $475 a piece for stainless steel tubular headers that mimic the cast 3.5 manifolds. If you are thinking about going the turbo route I would highly suggest contacting them in order to get a set made.

Ps: you will need stock 3.5 manifolds to send to them in order to have the tubular headers made.
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