OAR deviation concern

PROBLEM SOLVED BY INSTALLING THE UPR DVCC This was an issue with the high flowing downpipe overtaxing the stock PCV system leading to oil pooling in the intake manifold.

Hello. I'd like to ask if someone could comment on whether there's an issue with the engine in my mustang or whether there are other things I should look into in regards to a less than ideal OAR value of as low as -.87 that I'm seeing using a 91 octane tune with 93 octane BP fuel. It took a whole bottle of octane booster to bring the OAR back to ideal value of -1. Could there really be that much knock going on on 93 octane fuel with a 91 octane tune? I do hear slight / very brief tapping at peak torque when I get on it almost every time.

Here's a log of a 4th gear pull with the 93 Octane tune;



It's looking much better compared to both the 91 and the stock tunes! Weird.

Here's a log of a 4th gear pull with the 91 Octane tune;



It's pulling up to -1.5 timing at peak torque.

Here's a log of a few pulls with Stock tune;



The boost pressure and the absolute throttle position are all over the place. This probably means that the ECU is trying to compensate for something being off -
possibly the aftermarket catted downpipe or the IC.

My mods are: Intake, Intercooler, 3" Catted Turbo Back Exhaust, DV+ BPV adapter, stock plugs gapped to .028.

Thanks.

BP is supposed to be good. Have you tried another gas station like Valero, Chevron? There are other top tier gasoline manufacturers to try(Google Top Tier and you'll get a list). What do you ignition corrections look like as those are gauges you'll want to monitor. I assume you are using an Access Port. You could always test that theory and put maybe a gallon of e85 in the tank with your 93 and see if it shows -1 anymore.

I'm using torque pro with the custom OAR PID. I don't think that the Ford Mustang specific ignition correction PID has yet to be discovered. I do get -1 with a bottle of octane booster.

I would at least try a different gas station. BP should be fine but try a different one. Sometimes stations have issues with their tanks. It's also possible they just got a bad delivery but not as likely. The other possibility is it's because of the tune. If you try another gas station and are still having the issues, contact your tuner. The tuner might just say the same but they might want to back the timing off some.

I think that the OAR has averaged out over the course of the car's life as I haven't ever reset the ecu and during that period I've bought fuel from over 10 different brands. In any case, I've only begun monitoring the OAR since about two weeks ago during which period I've used at least 3 different brands of fuel, all 93 octane.

Here's a log of a 4th gear pull I just did for those interested;

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9GAmR4bTq1nMkRyd1lCb3d0M3c/view?usp=drivesdk

It's pulling up to -1.5 timing at peak torque.

My mods are: CAI, IC, TBE, DV+ BPV adapter, stock plugs gapped to .028.

jbailer said:

I would at least try a different gas station. BP should be fine but try a different one. Sometimes stations have issues with their tanks. It's also possible they just got a bad delivery but not as likely. The other possibility is it's because of the tune. If you try another gas station and are still having the issues, contact your tuner. The tuner might just say the same but they might want to back the timing off some.

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CustomS550 said:

I think that the OAR has averaged out over the course of the car's life as I haven't ever reset the ecu and during that period I've bought fuel from over 10 different brands. In any case, I've only begun monitoring the OAR since about two weeks ago during which period I've used at least 3 different brands of fuel, all 93 octane.

Here's a log of a 4th gear pull I just did for those interested;

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9GAmR4bTq1nMkRyd1lCb3d0M3c/view?usp=drivesdk

It's pulling up to -1.5 timing at peak torque.

My mods are: CAI, IC, TBE, DV+ BPV adapter, stock plugs gapped to .028.

Click to expand...

If I understood what you said, OAR doesn't work like that. It could be -.8 and with good gas it will pull it to -1 within an hour of driving. It isn't averaged, it's current.

I have wanted to watch OAR in Torque App but could get it to work. Could you tell me the way you got it to work? Thanks,

I think that this is only the case for specific tuners like Tune+ and possibly a few others where they deliberately reset it on every start of the engine. The stock and my specific tuner seem to be cumulative.

jbailer said:

If I understood what you said, OAR doesn't work like that. It could be -.8 and with good gas it will pull it to -1 within an hour of driving. It isn't averaged, it's current.

Click to expand...

tw557 said:

I have wanted to watch OAR in Torque App but could get it to work. Could you tell me the way you got it to work? Tanks,

Click to expand...

Here you go;
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html

They call it Learned Octane Ratio (LOR) and we call it Octane Adjust Ratio (OAR)

Learned Octane ratio (See this thread for Explanation)
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=4675.msg73674#msg73674

Another note on LOR - It appears to only look at knock seen under 4k RPM and 1.5 load (Credit to AJPTurbo) in other words at part throttle conditions. It won't look at WOT knock and adjust the LOR directly however if your LOR does change it is believed to affect your WOT timing.

PID 2203E8
Formula - (Signed(A)*256+B)/16384

PID Installation Instructions:

Add a custom PID in Torque by going to the "Settings" section off the main screen.
Enter the following for the fields it prompts you for:
"OBD2 Mode and PID" = 2203E8
"Long Name" = Octane Adjust Ratio
"Short Name" = OAR
"Minimum Value" = -1
"Maximum Value" = 1
"Scale Factor" = x0.01
"Unit Type" =
"Equation" = (Signed(A)*256+B)/16384
Leave the OBD Header blank

Adding gauges to your Torque Screen:

Go to the Realtime Information display from the main menu and then find a place on the screen you’d like to put your new gauge. Long press and then “Add Display”. Pick a gauge type and then scroll to find your new PIDs. Position it on the screen and then repeat the whole process until your gauges are all populated on the screen.

Click to expand...

Perfect, Thanks!!

I switched to the stock tune today to experiment but unfortunately the data logging failed during the few pulls I did so I'll have to do a few again later. However, in the hour of driving I've noticed that the OAR went up a point. Also interesting to note was the boost pressure all over the place from 18 down to 13 then up to 21 psi all during a single 4th gear pull. This is with the high flow catted downpipe I have, so maybe it had something to do with the pressure. Otherwise I can definitely feel a slight drop in power, however not as drastic as I remember it to be. Seems to be safe with the high flow downpipe on the stock tune otherwise. I forgot how hot the factory tune runs with the active grille shutters closed during regular driving - always above 200 deg!

CustomS550 said:

I switched to the stock tune today to experiment but unfortunately the data logging failed during the few pulls I did so I'll have to do a few again later. However, in the hour of driving I've noticed that the OAR went up a point. Also interesting to note was the boost pressure all over the place from 18 down to 13 then up to 21 psi all during a single 4th gear pull. This is with the high flow catted downpipe I have, so maybe it had something to do with the pressure. Otherwise I can definitely feel a slight drop in power, however not as drastic as I remember it to be. Seems to be safe with the high flow downpipe on the stock tune otherwise. I forgot how hot the factory tune runs with the active grille shutters closed during regular driving - always above 200 deg!

Click to expand...

OAR doesn't adjust under load like that. It will adjust under lighter load. I forget the percentage, I want to say it's like under 40% load or something. I think the best scenario was drive it like 40 MPH with very light pedal and it adjusts quickly. While it might seem ok for now with the stock tune with an O/R DP, many people started out that way when the platform was new. After a while, they reported their cars smoking. I think they said it was damaging the seals in the turbo or something. Would be real interesting to see your boost logged though, that's weird. Do you have an aftermarket WGA or BPV/BOV?

Edit: I just saw your mods listed above and only see the DV+. I wouldn't think that would have anything to do with it unless the piston is sticking. I saw someone say their piston was sticking and they needed to oil it, was that you? I remember they were from Jersey also commenting about the north east climate.

It was me with the sticking piston. That's fixed now. The hour of driving on the stock tune I had mentioned was light in typical rush hour traffic. I have a large cat. converter which should provide decent back pressure, but I don't plan on keeping the stock tune for long. I would think the seals going would more of a mechanical by-product vs a tuning issue if the max pressure is about the same between tunes?

CustomS550 said:

It was me with the sticking piston. That's fixed now. The hour of driving on the stock tune I had mentioned was light in typical rush hour traffic. I have a large cat. converter which should provide decent back pressure, but I don't plan on keeping the stock tune for long. I would think the seals going would more of a mechanical by-product vs a tuning issue if the max pressure is about the same between tunes?

Click to expand...

Oh, when you were talking about boost, that's why I thought maybe you were hoping to get the OAR to adjust while under load. The first time I reset and was trying to get the OAR to -1.0, I had driven for hours and was nowhere close. I thought it had to see several scenarios and especially heavier load so it could evaluate the octane. It wasn't until the tuner told me I needed to drive with very light load to get it to adjust that I got it to move. Then it went to -1.0 within 30 minutes of driving. This was all on the same gas.

For some reason, I thought you meant you had an O/R (catless DP), that should be fine. The O/R DP is something that has to be tuned for though. There was a discussion about it probably back in 2015 when people were first getting the OR DPs. At first everything was fine, after a while of use people started getting smoke. They eventually figured out why and one of the tuners mentioned the need for the tune change to account for it. I'm a turbo noob and couldn't begin to explain what he was talking about. I just took away the lesson that if you get an O/R DP, you needed to have a tune for it. That wouldn't matter to me though, being in MD, I have to have the cat because of inspections.

I thought it might be you with the DV+ that was sticking but wasn't sure and couldn't find it quick. It sounds like something might still be going on there if your boost is fluctuating that much under constant load. I have a DV+ that I've yet to install. Now you have me wondering if I should consider some lubrication other than the motor oil GFB recommends to lubricate the piston.

The joys and perils of modifying a factory perfect car...

It could have been just a learning phase as that was the first WOT pull I did after the flash. We'll find out soon.

The piston in mine seemed fairly worn after only 7 months of use. There might be a more permanent lubrication solution for something like this, might just have to dig around on the internet.