[New Spy Pics 4/12]: 2015 Mustang s550 Prototype Now With Covered Production Body?

Yes, despite it's porky weight and terrible ergonomics, the driving experience is far more advanced than the current Mustang (and also worth noting is that it has a transmission which isn't an embarrassing POS). And the Chevy drag racers aren't abandoning it just because it has an IRS. You don't see people moaning because it doesn't have a solid axle.. and any Corvette owner who hears such moaning would be laughing and rolling around on the floor.

All that it's needed is better tuning than it got originally... and the 1LE, ZL1, and now the Z28 have shown the full capability of this chassis. All three FAR ahead of the current Mustang.

What worrying is the next Camaro will be based on the excellent Alpha chassis... which is already far more advanced than the S550 chassis could possibly be (call it an S550, but it's still just a dumbed down DEW98).

It's possible that the base 2 liter turbo Camaro could weigh as little as 3200 pounds in base no-options form. Look at the specs of the ATS in 4-cylinder form... take out 2 doors, take out some weight from "Cadillac" options and soundproofing... you have the Camaro. 272 HP base 4-cylinder, 323 HP V-6, and 450+ HP LT1. Direct injection (and IRS) across the board. And that's just the base lineup, the special models will come later.

Yea some good points about the Alpha chassis... Mustang has been playing catch up for some time now after the return of the Camaro. They didnt have to worry about this kind of competition for a while but now it's here and they are getting thumped. What the s550 platform lacks vs the Alpha, it will IMO have to make up for in design and overall experience. Mustangs are hands down more fun to drive IMO. The camaro is a great performer no doubt and I'm sure the z28 has brought it to a whole other level, but to me it's more a DD.

A lot at stake for Mustang in this next one for sure. Hopefully a fire under their asses right now.

When you talk to the people who did the Alpha chassis, the engineers and designers, you learn that it was a totally clean sheet design - absolutely nothing was reused or shared. And if you look at it's basic body shell, you see an incredible number of places where excess metal was removed, large holes stamped out of otherwise flat sheet steel areas, they literally did a "gram strategy" (to use Mazda's term) to remove any and all excess weight. Every ounce, even using a fastener with a bigger head than might be needed, had to be examined in detail and justified. The Alpha chassis is a really excellent job.

Then, when you look at an S197 body shell, you see that this is a product of a different age. And that it can't be "modified" to match the Alpha. The S550 platform is not a clean sheet, it's just a slight evolution of the S197 (how much still to be determined), and it's architecture is still directly related to the DEW98 (designed in the mid eighties). It can't be competitive.

GM has pulled off what Ford dreamed about doing with the DEW98 - building an entire set of cars on the same platform. The ATS, new CTS, next Camaro, and (rumor has it) a new Buick or two will all share the same chassis, which lowers costs for all and doesn't relegate any user of the chassis to a low common denominator. Users which are supposed to be less expensive products (like the Camaro compared to the ATS), can benefit from premium components that they couldn't have afforded otherwise. It's expensive, but development costs are largely paid for by the "richer" partners (aka Cadillac) and also by greater volume (and bigger margins on the high end).

Nissan/Infiniti also does this with the chassis they share between the G, M, new Q, FX, EX, and the 370Z. So you have a world-class chassis here, aluminum and light weight components galore, shared by everybody and benefitting all users - enabling them to do things they couldn't have done otherwise.

The DEW98 was Ford's attempt to pull this off... it was shared between the Lincoln LS, Thunderbird, and Jag S-Type. And it was intended to be used underneath a new Mustang as well, which would have finally given us a truly world-class classis with an SLA front suspension and rear IRS designed in from the start, no compromises. The DEW98 was a work of art. However, Billy Ford cancelled it when he was attempting to run the company because it was too closely connected to Jacques Nasser. And the bean counters didn't like it because it was the most expensive car they had to manufacture (in the days when the Crown Vic was a runaway best seller - with a fat margin). And there was an even earlier attempt at this with the MN12 chassis, which again was intended to be used for multiple products including a Mustang (the mules of which were shorted Tbirds). Ford's corporate culture killed off the DEW98 and MN12.

So now we have no corporate rear wheel drive platform, no way to directly challenge the ATS or CTS, much less build some of the Lincoln dream concepts that have gone by.

And instead we have the slightly evolved S197 platform, the S550. It's way too soon to know the extent of this, but will it be able to challenge spec-for-spec a Camaro based on a far more modern platform that was developed on an almost cost-no-object basis? Will it be able to achieve the same low weight (and match the crash standards)? Will there be a base V-8 with 450+ HP, 450+ torque? Will it/can it have the dynamics of a platform that was designed with a 50/50% weight balance from the start?

So you see the types of questions that have to be answered internally in the development of the S550. And here, by us, well before the actual product hits the streets.

The DEW98 was a work of art. However, Billy Ford cancelled it when he was attempting to run the company because it was too closely connected to Jacques Nasser. And the bean counters didn't like it because it was the most expensive car they had to manufacture (in the days when the Crown Vic was a runaway best seller - with a fat margin). And there was an even earlier attempt at this with the MN12 chassis, which again was intended to be used for multiple products including a Mustang (the mules of which were shorted Tbirds). Ford's corporate culture killed off the DEW98 and MN12.

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How expensive exactly? While it sucks to know that Ford killed off a more superior platform in favor of a modified S197, I'd rather get a better mustang i can afford than to have one that can take on the camaro/vette/aston and i get to watch it from a distance. In the end, Ford has to stay true to its roots of best bang for your buck pony car, no? Making a vette-quality car is pointless for them since they lack the premium brand status of those cars not only in the US, but especially abroad.

S550Boss said:

It's possible that the base 2 liter turbo Camaro could weigh as little as 3200 pounds in base no-options form. Look at the specs of the ATS in 4-cylinder form... take out 2 doors, take out some weight from "Cadillac" options and soundproofing... you have the Camaro. 272 HP base 4-cylinder, 323 HP V-6, and 450+ HP LT1. Direct injection (and IRS) across the board. And that's just the base lineup, the special models will come later.

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3200lbs on the Alpha? Isnt the base 3800 right now? That's some crazy weight savings.. the s550 only about to shed ~200. If thats true, with the Chevy powertrain options, Ford will still be playing catchup for years to come. :tsk:

KC_Drifter said:

3200lbs on the Alpha? Isnt the base 3800 right now? That's some crazy weight savings.. the s550 only about to shed ~200. If thats true, with the Chevy powertrain options, Ford will still be playing catchup for years to come. :tsk:

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The S550 has to meet current "crash" standards worldwide, and exceed them to match what is coming down the road. The current car doesn't meet all of those standards (some overlapping, some conflicting), including the pedestrian crash standards. But the Alpha does meet these, as does the Focus and Fusion. It's a "One Ford" world going forward with the Mustang.

The Alpha is extremely lightweight in it's base form... it doesn't weigh 3200 pounds, but I am suggesting that cut down (shortened, extraneous options removed) into a 2-door Camaro it could weigh down in the 3200s with some careful attention to weight. Whatever it weighs, it will not weigh more than the Mustang will and that's a huge difference from today. So the competitive landscape changes here... and on top of that there is the LT1.

Doesnt the camaro sell in china right now? Different regs there? I may have old news, but thought I read that the Alpha platform was having issues and not meeting their weight saving goals. Wasnt the kind of drastic weight savings you're talking about only when they intended to create a platform with a 4-cyl engine in mind?

I thought when they decided to put the Camaro on the platform and the plans for a TTv6 (and v8 for the camaro) the weight estimates shot up a lot.

That's old news, the ATS was finalized a long time ago and provisions were made to be able to offer both 2-door and longer versions of it. The chassis can take anything from a 4 to an 8. That means that structurally it may weight more than originally intended, but the flexibility is there for multiple reuses. Next platform to use it is the new CTS, coming soon.

It'd be nice for Ford (their bottom line) if they came up with a platform that's as flexible and universal as the Alpha is for GM, but all I really care about is how good the s550 will be chassis will be for the Mustang. Sounds like the next Camaro will easily drop a few hundred pounds just by switching to the new platform. I'm worried the Mustang won't follow.

Any guess how much lighter the s550 will be compared to the s197?

Due to how badly Lincoln has done, the whole cost sharing thing where the richer partners basically pay uneven share of the cost for the good of the entire shared platform, I would think the math doesnt work out the same as with Chevy and its Camaro/Cadillac since its such a more profitable brand for them. Maybe this factored into them scrapping the project ?

Anyway, it sucks to hear that corporate politics lead to us getting an inferior and modified s197, but its better then still being stuck with a live axle etc.

stangray11 said:

Agree. As I said before it looks like at least a different rear/tail lights. One of two things is going on here.

First, either we got a cover that is too small for this car and obscuring the angle and placement of the mesh cutouts for the rear lights, OR.....

We have rear lights that more closely resemble the Evos/Fusion in shape, angle, and placement on the rear. No way of really telling, but it would be interesting if this were the actual s550 rear. Here's a comparison of the rear end of the current GT, Fusion, Evos, and the new spy pic.

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Reading too much into this. I think you just have a cover that wont fit and it's pulling the light cutouts above the top lip. I dont think we see anything like that Italian concept car's rear lights.

S550Boss said:

And instead we have the slightly evolved S197 platform, the S550. It's way too soon to know the extent of this, but will it be able to challenge spec-for-spec a Camaro based on a far more modern platform that was developed on an almost cost-no-object basis? Will it be able to achieve the same low weight (and match the crash standards)? Will there be a base V-8 with 450+ HP, 450+ torque? Will it/can it have the dynamics of a platform that was designed with a 50/50% weight balance from the start?

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By the time the next camaro rolls out with the alpha platform, the mustang should have a DI 5.0 I would hope. 450 is a given, the question is how much more of an increase can the camaro achieve out of it. The camaro is what 52/48 right now? Already ahead in that dept. We'll see what the new S550 chassis with IRS can do -- I think it'll be on par. My main worry with the Camaro vs. Mustang competition is the weight. Mustang has always led in this department and made up for its inferior powertrain and suspension partly because it is a lighter car. You lose that advantage and all else remaining equal, they are at a big competitive disadvantage unless they can really grab people with the design.

The 2015 is supposed to be significantly changed, so I can only imagine that this is a disguised mule made up of God knows what. A previous poster said the profile looked like the current car which I agree in - in fact the rear window does not even look as "fast" as the roof of the current car. Isn't it a good guess that new Mustang will be even slicker, especially at the front and rear, in order to gain an mpg or two? I'd expect a much faster roof... and no "notchback" edition.

Butch said:

The 2015 is supposed to be significantly changed, so I can only imagine that this is a disguised mule made up of God knows what. A previous poster said the profile looked like the current car which I agree in - in fact the rear window does not even look as "fast" as the roof of the current car. Isn't it a good guess that new Mustang will be even slicker, especially at the front and rear, in order to gain an mpg or two? I'd expect a much faster roof... and no "notchback" edition.

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I think we're all making too much of that latest picture... that thing was a mess and because they build different mules with different levels of the final product in it, it's impossible to tell what it's purpose was. It was a mess.. maybe it's even been crashed :shrug:

At some point they'll get out of the couple of mules at a time business, and start limited offsite pseudo-production of hand-built prototypes. Using temporary (soft) stampings for all the major panels. That's when the final shape will be apparent. If somebody catches one on film, that is.

I've spent a lot of time in Dearborn over the years... there are certain places where these things can be found, and then there are a couple of locations not immediately in town. One of my favorite locations was the boneyard for mules - stuff that wasn't current, but had been thrown to the side. Unbelievably, it was almost right out in the open. I once found a Lincoln LS with a strut front suspension there (aka mule for the S195), and an Explorer with coilovers all around (aka mule for the post-2001 generation). Seeing this kind of stuff is fascinating.

The trick is to find out where the development team is holed up and hang out around there - although the manufacturers almost always have security ready to jump on you. You also have to go far afield... Ford is probably doing durability testing on that suspension in one of their Arizona locations, for example. And then there is the work in Europe - there are plenty of completely inaccessible locations there. And they probably just completed winter testing on it. In fact, if production does start in, say, January for an April delivery (and we don't know that yet, it may well be the summer of 2014 for all we know) - then the major hard parts are done and already in the next phase.

A picture of an S550 is probably the hottest picture to be had in Michigan right now, since the Corvette has come out. You can bet a lot of people are all over it.

It does look like it was wrecked,..front bumper is sitting on floor looks like

This may just be my drunk as talking but why someone doesnt just fly a helicopter or some over the GM testing grounds to photo some of the mules and protytypes over there. Same with Ford in Dearborn. One way to bypass the security. It's the hottest ticket in town so would be worth the $$ i think.