New owner, getting up to speed on suspension

SgtRauksauff · Aug 17, 2017

So, I bought a used 2017 base GT for DD. The only mod I've found the PO to have made has been a muffler delete. It's great so far. Working on subtle little things to aid in handling when I take it to the occasional autoX/HPDE while the project track rat is under the knife.

I've been lurking and reading, but there's always a few questions that I want to ask..

I'll probably source a few things as slight upgrades. Can someone confirm the following differences?

rear toe links - what's the difference between the GT and GTPP part? just a harder durometer bushing? from pictures, they do not appear to be adjustable.

rear sway bar - slightly larger diameter, different bushings and brackets. not sure about end link differences, but I'd assume they are stiffer than the base GT links as well?

front sway bar - same bar, different durometer bushings for the end links. not sure on the durometer of the mounting bushing, but I'd assume they are stiffer to match, is this correct?

GTPP has the strut tower bar, and the firewall c-brace (which is labeled the K-brace in the PP option list, right?), and the small bracket in between the cowl sections that one bolt of the C-brace (K-brace) bolts to.

I understand that the PP has a slightly different undertray and support bracket, with a flap or door for changing oil.. is there any performance benefit to the different metal piece, or is it simply convenience/cosmetic?

This car is really making me smile, it's a lot better and more refined than the '89 fox body LX I had back in the day...

Thanks!

--sarge

M151A2 · Aug 17, 2017

I really have no suggestions as I am upgrading as well. What I wonder about is, why did someone sell a 17 GT? Hell, it's still brand new.

GTP · Aug 17, 2017

I did a lot of research, so time is on your side.

My advice is that cradle lockout is a must mod, and you won't get increased NVH.
Otherwise, think long and hard on your choice of spring rate, and drop. Study the sticky thread on that, and then see if you can absorb [MENTION=10281]BmacIL[/MENTION] 's Ride Frequency spreadsheet.

BmacIL · Aug 17, 2017

Please feel free to message me if you'd like some goals-based advice

SgtRauksauff · Aug 17, 2017

M151A2 said:
I really have no suggestions as I am upgrading as well. What I wonder about is, why did someone sell a 17 GT? Hell, it's still brand new.

I know!! it had only 7600 miles on it!! What the salesperson told me (she was the one who the previous owner worked with) was that the insurance wasn't worth it for him at this time. in his 20's, an OTR truck driver, only home on weekends... didn't really have time to enjoy it, so why pay for it. smart move on his part, no reason to pour out money for a toy you can't play with.

From CJPonyParts, regarding the rear toe links:
Original equipment on Performance Pack equipped Mustangs
Delrin lined spherical bearings prevents deflection compared to base toe link.

so, spherical bearing instead of a rubber bushing. win.

I'm slowly figuring out tiny tweaks to make this already-good car even better!

--sarge

BmacIL · Aug 17, 2017

SgtRauksauff said:
So, I bought a used 2017 base GT for DD. The only mod I've found the PO to have made has been a muffler delete. It's great so far. Working on subtle little things to aid in handling when I take it to the occasional autoX/HPDE while the project track rat is under the knife.

I've been lurking and reading, but there's always a few questions that I want to ask..

I'll probably source a few things as slight upgrades. Can someone confirm the following differences?

rear toe links - what's the difference between the GT and GTPP part? just a harder durometer bushing? from pictures, they do not appear to be adjustable.

rear sway bar - slightly larger diameter, different bushings and brackets. not sure about end link differences, but I'd assume they are stiffer than the base GT links as well?

front sway bar - same bar, different durometer bushings for the end links. not sure on the durometer of the mounting bushing, but I'd assume they are stiffer to match, is this correct?

GTPP has the strut tower bar, and the firewall c-brace (which is labeled the K-brace in the PP option list, right?), and the small bracket in between the cowl sections that one bolt of the C-brace (K-brace) bolts to.

I understand that the PP has a slightly different undertray and support bracket, with a flap or door for changing oil.. is there any performance benefit to the different metal piece, or is it simply convenience/cosmetic?

This car is really making me smile, it's a lot better and more refined than the '89 fox body LX I had back in the day...

Thanks!

--sarge

Toe links - no difference, all GTs and EB PP get the same toe links

Rear sway bar - PP is slightly larger diameter, requires the bar and new bushings, but same brackets can be used

Front sway bar - GT PP has same sized bar itself, but it has "sticky" mounting bushings and a much stiffer mounting bracket that is part of the bar assembly, not separate pieces

You've got it on the upper K-brace and strut tower bar, and the lower K-brace does add some stiffness, too.

GTP · Aug 17, 2017

I'm not absolutely clear if OP has PP or not. He describes content, but never claimed his new car is PP. Most of us indicate that in the "Drives:" field.

GTP · Aug 17, 2017

Bmac, what are these "sticky bushings" of which you speak? :shrug:

Rustang · Aug 17, 2017

The GTPP toe links have a spherical bushing in them which the GT does not however the bushing in the knuckle where they attach is rubber in both. I could have sworn I heard the front suspension had one bushing that was different too but not certain if true.
The GTPP belly pan and splitter are unique but aero only, no addition bracing benefit.
Spring rates and shocks are also different in GTPP.
If you are upgrading go aftermarket, it will be better than the PP stuff.

BmacIL · Aug 17, 2017

Rustang said:
The GTPP toe links have a spherical bushing in them which the GT does not however the bushing in the knuckle where they attach is rubber in both. I could have sworn I heard the front suspension had one bushing that was different too but not certain if true.
The GTPP belly pan and splitter are unique but aero only, no addition bracing benefit.
Spring rates and shocks are also different in GTPP.
If you are upgrading go aftermarket, it will be better than the PP stuff.

All GT toe links are identical.

The lower control arm (rear of the front control arms) in the GT PP has a bearing inner point vs. a bushing for all non-PP cars.

BmacIL · Aug 17, 2017

GTP said:
Bmac, what are these "sticky bushings" of which you speak? :shrug:

Basically, instead of a bushing that only constrains radial movement and allows for (relatively) free movement about the axis, the sticky bushings have some designed in friction to improve on-center steering feel.

SgtRauksauff · Aug 18, 2017

GTP said:
I'm not absolutely clear if OP has PP or not. He describes content, but never claimed his new car is PP. Most of us indicate that in the "Drives:" field.

Ah, I did not enter that part when I first registered.

I do indeed have a Base GT, no PP at all. I know that aftermarket parts would in most cases be better than even what the PP has available, but I'm trying to keep myself doing no mods until at least one of my other projects is finished. If I started changing things, I'd just be correcting the mistake that the previous owner made by not ordering the PP.

Anyways, Thanks Everyone, for the information; it did indeed help answer some questions.

I think it would be intereting to have all the PP stiffening agents on the base-GT platform. It would be like the old "poly bushings everywhere" thing done on cars past, but with OEM parts. And with the square wheel/tire setup, I'm betting that the PP sway bars/bushings would make this a fairly neutral feeling car instead of the slight understeeriness that it has right now. Dial in the toe and it will probably be downright awesome. Seems like this car suffers from what most cars do, lack of camber adjustment. Which I accept, since this car will be 90%+ just a DD.

At least, that's the plan.

Rustang · Aug 18, 2017

BmacIL said:
All GT toe links are identical.

I will disagree unless you are speaking purely of the metal part of the link itself. The PP gets a spherical bearing in the link vs. rubber in a non-PP. This is why if someone with a PP upgrades to an aftermarket toe link they can press their toe link bearing out of the factory link and put it in the knuckle vs. buying a new sperical knuckle bearing and get spericals at both ends. I have seen the links in my PP and my friends non-PP and can verify them not to have the same bushings/bearings in the links.
Here is a link to a stock PP toe link
http://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-racing-performance-pack-rear-toe-link-kit-2015-2017/p/M5972M/

OP - I would also recommend replacing the RLCA bushing with a spherical bearing. It did wonders to kill wheel hop and tightened up the rear. It was a pain to swap but totally worth it.

BmacIL · Aug 18, 2017

Rustang said:
I will disagree unless you are speaking purely of the metal part of the link itself. The PP gets a spherical bearing in the link vs. rubber in a non-PP. This is why if someone with a PP upgrades to an aftermarket toe link they can press their toe link bearing out of the factory link and put it in the knuckle vs. buying a new sperical knuckle bearing and get spericals at both ends. I have seen the links in my PP and my friends non-PP and can verify them not to have the same bushings/bearings in the links.
Here is a link to a stock PP toe link
http://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-racing-performance-pack-rear-toe-link-kit-2015-2017/p/M5972M/

OP - I would also recommend replacing the RLCA bushing with a spherical bearing. It did wonders to kill wheel hop and tightened up the rear. It was a pain to swap but totally worth it.

Does your friend have a non-PP EB or GT? I have been told by Ford employees that all GTs get the PP toe links, along with the EB PP. Now, it's possible for '17MY they decided to cost reduce and go with the non-PP toe link on all non-PP models, but for '15 and '16 it was on all GTs. Several of the vendors on here have found that to be true as well [MENTION=9985]BMR Tech[/MENTION]

Rustang · Aug 19, 2017

Friend's car is a 2015 non-PP GT auto, does your 2015 manual have sphericals in your toe links?

New owner, getting up to speed on suspension

SgtRauksauff

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M151A2

Skinny old dude

GTP

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BmacIL

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SgtRauksauff

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BmacIL

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GTP

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Rustang

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BmacIL

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SgtRauksauff

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Rustang

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BmacIL

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