I think it's time for a new clutch, at 26k miles

altjx · Sep 14, 2017

Trackaholic said:
Make sure you aren't driving with your foot resting on the clutch pedal.

I don't see any of your habits as necessarily "bad".

Keep in mind that any time the clutch is slipping, wear will occur. Slipping under low power/RPM will create only a small amount of wear, but it can add up. It's possible that you might be engaging the clutch too slowly. In might also be possible that a single incident caused some damage, or that it wasn't properly setup from the factory.

-T

Gotcha. Thanks for the input man! :cheers:

Colleton · Sep 14, 2017

A clutch is a wear item, I can't believe that they are replacing it under warranty - esp. at 26K miles. I've seen Ford deny warranty coverage on GT500 clutches that died as early as 2K miles (not mine, but it was local to me). You've just accomplished something that many have tried and failed to do. Kudos to you.

I'm also shocked at the mileage. You got your car right before I got mine. Up until the last few weeks I've been DDing mine and only have ~7200 miles on it. It would normally have been around 10K by now, but I've been on travel for work for ~3 months this year.

superman07 · Sep 14, 2017

your dealer is a gemstone in the rough. I think mine may be slipping a bit at 23k, but I plan to go Mantic.

TRS7139 · Sep 14, 2017

The single best way avoid a repeat is to find somebody with manual experience a have them go out with you a couple times.
It should not be tough but since the clutch should easily go double that milage, likely it's on you.
ANY time you sense slippage especially at decent RPM bring it in or run the risk of frying the flywheel as well.

Shift · Sep 14, 2017

I've been driving manual for 12+ years now, but this is the first car that I've done any real rev-match downshifts in. My driving habits are the same as yours, as I pretty much rev-match downshift every time I can. Only recently have I become proficient at it thanks in part to the Steeda clutch spring and realizing just how high the grab point is on the clutch(wish there was some kind of clutch stop though, since it seems like half the clutch travel is moot).

It's great the Ford is taking care of the clutch for you, usually they can wiggle their way out of that one since it's a wear item. That said I'm only 10k miles in, no clutch slipping yet. Even if I did, and Ford didn't take care of it, I have the maintenance plan which at least gives me 1 replacement. If that happens, maybe I'll change my driving habits.

Probably not though.

altjx · Sep 14, 2017

Colleton said:
A clutch is a wear item, I can't believe that they are replacing it under warranty - esp. at 26K miles. I've seen Ford deny warranty coverage on GT500 clutches that died as early as 2K miles (not mine, but it was local to me). You've just accomplished something that many have tried and failed to do. Kudos to you.

I'm also shocked at the mileage. You got your car right before I got mine. Up until the last few weeks I've been DDing mine and only have ~7200 miles on it. It would normally have been around 10K by now, but I've been on travel for work for ~3 months this year.

Agreed. I didn't think they'd cover it either. One of the advisors told me though that it's supposed to be covered in the 3 yr 36k miles warranty - doesn't sound right to me, but that works for me lol. :shrug:

superman07 said:
your dealer is a gemstone in the rough. I think mine may be slipping a bit at 23k, but I plan to go Mantic.

Agreed. How can you actually tell that the clutch is slipping though? For me, I can just feel the wheels spinning when I get on it really good. I mean I'm on stock tires and 26k miles so that's not surprising to me. I still don't understand how "the clutch is slipping."

TRS7139 said:
The single best way avoid a repeat is to find somebody with manual experience a have them go out with you a couple times.
It should not be tough but since the clutch should easily go double that milage, likely it's on you.
ANY time you sense slippage especially at decent RPM bring it in or run the risk of frying the flywheel as well.

I'm not exactly sure how to determine the clutch slipping though is the only thing. I can only really feel the wheels spinning when I get on it really good in 1st and second, but that's about it.

Shift said:
I've been driving manual for 12+ years now, but this is the first car that I've done any real rev-match downshifts in. My driving habits are the same as yours, as I pretty much rev-match downshift every time I can. Only recently have I become proficient at it thanks in part to the Steeda clutch spring and realizing just how high the grab point is on the clutch(wish there was some kind of clutch stop though, since it seems like half the clutch travel is moot).

It's great the Ford is taking care of the clutch for you, usually they can wiggle their way out of that one since it's a wear item. That said I'm only 10k miles in, no clutch slipping yet. Even if I did, and Ford didn't take care of it, I have the maintenance plan which at least gives me 1 replacement. If that happens, maybe I'll change my driving habits.

Probably not though.

:lol: man the car is so much fun. I love rev matching and I try to not do it unnecessarily, but damn it sounds good and it feels good to downshift smoothly.

KiLLeR2001 · Sep 14, 2017

Your clutch is slipping when you go to accelerate and the revs climb up but your wheels aren't putting the full power to the ground. Easy to tell with this car and its loud exhaust cause you'll hear it climb the revs but not the same forward thrust.

altjx · Sep 14, 2017

KiLLeR2001 said:
Your clutch is slipping when you go to accelerate and the revs climb up but your wheels aren't putting the full power to the ground. Easy to tell with this car and its loud exhaust cause you'll hear it climb the revs but not the same forward thrust.

So in other words, the RPMs will be climbing but you WILL have traction right and it just won't be matching the power/speed?

Here's the exhaust video, but in the car I mean I can feel the wheels spinning (and again 24-25k miles and stock tires on this video):

[ame]

I pretty much got up to about 5k RPMs in first gear and then floored it, which, to me, felt like wheel spin.

EF300 · Sep 15, 2017

Please post up the cost for this repair. Even though its a warranty item, those details should be listed on your invoice.

I am thinking $1500 at a dealer , parts and labor.

altjx · Sep 15, 2017

EF300 said:
Please post up the cost for this repair. Even though its a warranty item, those details should be listed on your invoice.

I am thinking $1500 at a dealer , parts and labor.

Will do.

jasonstang · Sep 15, 2017

altjx said:
So in other words, the RPMs will be climbing but you WILL have traction right and it just won't be matching the power/speed?

Here's the exhaust video, but in the car I mean I can feel the wheels spinning (and again 24-25k miles and stock tires on this video):

I pretty much got up to about 5k RPMs in first gear and then floored it, which, to me, felt like wheel spin.

Doesn't sound like slipping to me.
Just wheel spins.
A good way to tell if your clutch is slipping or not is high way speeds put in 5th and floor it.
As for rev shooting up between gear changes, it's doing that with foot off the gas pedal, then it's a bad rev hang.

Lurker_350 · Sep 15, 2017

I think you should be able to take off in 4th or 5th if you were really trying at it. Wouldn't be good for the clutch, but it could be done. I'm not sure that the test the dealer suggested is fully indicative of a clutch slipping. I've accidentally taken off in 3rd (once) and it didn't seem to take much extra rpm to get her going.

As mentioned by others, if you're in 4th/5th gear and floor it at ~4k rpms, a slipping clutch would present itself by the following symptom:

-Engine rpms go up, but the car speed doesn't match the change in engine rpm. I wouldn't do this test in 1st/2nd/3rd since you could still get decent wheel spin depending on the road surface. But I guess 4k rpms in 4th might be at the limit of legality, so proceed with caution.

A clutch disk can be glazed by:

- too much delta in flywheel and transmission input shaft speed (i.e, engine rpms much faster or slower than transmission input shaft). This can be experienced under numerous high rpm launches and not releasing the clutch fast enough. The track attack folks seemed to want you to sidestep the clutch if you used launch control.

-not enough pressure plate clamping force. Based on your description of the way you drive (taken at face value), if the clutch is really failing, I suspect the pressure plate may not be clamping enough.

What about the dual mass flywheel? Is the dealer suggesting replacement? I'm not sure if they can be turned or not. If the clutch is glazed due to abuse, you may need a new flywheel too.

Since you have had other issues with the car, it may not be the clutch. For example, I had a bad tune on a WRX where the boost controller wasn't hitting targets and would oscillate, but only in high gears. I changed out the clutch and was pretty mad when it did the exact same thing, but it really felt like the clutch was slipping. Totally different circumstances, but just an example. I know you have already datalogged the vehicle and gone back and forth with your tuner, so I don't have any good suggestions.

Good luck!

torque124 · Sep 15, 2017

The other way to tell if clutch is slipping is engage 5th or 6th gear standing still, hit the brake and let the clutch out. If engine does not die right away and wobbles for a second or so, clutch is slipping.

altjx · Sep 15, 2017

jasonstang said:
Doesn't sound like slipping to me.
Just wheel spins.
A good way to tell if your clutch is slipping or not is high way speeds put in 5th and floor it.
As for rev shooting up between gear changes, it's doing that with foot off the gas pedal, then it's a bad rev hang.

It does sound like the wheels spinning to me. Is it still considered rev hang even when the RPMs are spiking up without my foot on the pedal though? About 500 RPMs for example?

Lurker_350 said:
I think you should be able to take off in 4th or 5th if you were really trying at it. Wouldn't be good for the clutch, but it could be done. I'm not sure that the test the dealer suggested is fully indicative of a clutch slipping. I've accidentally taken off in 3rd (once) and it didn't seem to take much extra rpm to get her going.

As mentioned by others, if you're in 4th/5th gear and floor it at ~4k rpms, a slipping clutch would present itself by the following symptom:

-Engine rpms go up, but the car speed doesn't match the change in engine rpm. I wouldn't do this test in 1st/2nd/3rd since you could still get decent wheel spin depending on the road surface. But I guess 4k rpms in 4th might be at the limit of legality, so proceed with caution.

A clutch disk can be glazed by:

- too much delta in flywheel and transmission input shaft speed (i.e, engine rpms much faster or slower than transmission input shaft). This can be experienced under numerous high rpm launches and not releasing the clutch fast enough. The track attack folks seemed to want you to sidestep the clutch if you used launch control.

-not enough pressure plate clamping force. Based on your description of the way you drive (taken at face value), if the clutch is really failing, I suspect the pressure plate may not be clamping enough.

What about the dual mass flywheel? Is the dealer suggesting replacement? I'm not sure if they can be turned or not. If the clutch is glazed due to abuse, you may need a new flywheel too.

Since you have had other issues with the car, it may not be the clutch. For example, I had a bad tune on a WRX where the boost controller wasn't hitting targets and would oscillate, but only in high gears. I changed out the clutch and was pretty mad when it did the exact same thing, but it really felt like the clutch was slipping. Totally different circumstances, but just an example. I know you have already datalogged the vehicle and gone back and forth with your tuner, so I don't have any good suggestions.

Good luck!

Yeah, not too sure. He showed me some document on Ford's website that had the technician try taking off in 4th gear at 2K RPMs and it mentioned the clutch is slipping if it actually works. I haven't had a friend or anyone try it though to see if it works for them.

They said they wouldn't be able to determine anything about the flywheel just yet until they start taking things out, so they're going to let me know hopefully once they start the repair.

Agreed -- it still happened on stock tune. The only other thing I can think of is just that that error code that I got, but I only got it that one time like 2 weeks ago and only once.

torque124 said:
The other way to tell if clutch is slipping is engage 5th or 6th gear standing still, hit the brake and let the clutch out. If engine does not die right away and wobbles for a second or so, clutch is slipping.

Hmm, wouldn't this happen in any gear? I'm not exactly sure but just curious though. So just keep the brake pedal held down while letting out of the clutch?

JuRuKi · Sep 15, 2017

ZAMIRZ said:
Rev-matching on downshift: Using the clutch to smooth the transition is a big no-no. You're supposed to match the vehicle speed with your right foot and then pull your left foot off in a smooth and deliberate move. Any hesitation or letting it out part of the way is forcing your clutch to rev-match and that just eats away at the disc material.

Im a new standard driver too and I tend to use the clutch to smooth the downshifting transition but only when my RPMs are low enough. Like when im approaching a curve in 4th gear around 1k RPMs i downshift to third while im turning and slowly let out the clutch. Or when im slowing down too much on the freeway i downshift to a lower gear when my RPMs are close to 1k and again let out the clutch slowly.
Am i doing it wrong?

I think it's time for a new clutch, at 26k miles

altjx

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Colleton

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superman07

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TRS7139

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Shift

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altjx

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KiLLeR2001

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altjx

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EF300

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altjx

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jasonstang

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Lurker_350

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torque124

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altjx

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JuRuKi

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