HPDE Insurance "Valuation" Question

wildcatgoal said:

I sincerely would prefer if I could add a rider to my regular auto insurance. It's not like they can't find out that the car goes on track, but I get insurance for my track days because the car is not 100% paid off and that brings piece of mind (at least it did) to cover it in the paddock and on track. At least my previous insurance company said if I am participating in the event, I would not have any coverage except theft, even in the paddock. Like if my car started on fire or got hit by someone in the paddock, no pay.

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I agree but if your current insurer is not will to take the risk you have no other choice.

If you think about it the risk is really fairly low especially considering the cost. Track day insurance is expensive when you think about the actual time the asset is at risk. In a typical weekend you may get 4-6 20-25min sessions a day. So that means the asset is at risk for less than 5 hrs of total track time over a 48hr period, and for that they charge you $300-$400.00.

If you are running in the novice group with an instructor your odds of having an incident are the lowest, you are typically with a group of slower drivers and hopefully an instructor that will keep you out of trouble. Intermediate groups are at the highest risk. There is a much higher range of driver skill level and performance levels of the cars are generally higher as the car as no longer stock and have some mods in place. Advanced groups are the middle as far as risk level goes, the drivers are more experienced but the cars are generally able to perform at a higher level and that means higher speeds. The only caveat to that is if you run in an Advance group that has open passing with no point by rules, but non of the track day insurers will cover this type of group.

It would be nice if your normal insurer would cover Novice group drivers, and offer a writer for the Intermediate and Advanced group drivers. Something like $1000.00 annually for Intermediate and $750.00 for Advanced. If they did many would pay for the extended coverage.

Dave

Okay y'all, update on this.

I spoke with Steve Katz who owns the company behind OnTrackInsurance, from whom I have been getting my... on track insurance from thus far.

As noted above, I have been insuring my car at $45K "agreed value". Steve told me that, had I totaled my car in those insured track days, I would have been paid $45K - 10%. So I did get the full value of the insurance I bought: $45K, not a "lesser number" if something, God forbid, actually happened and my car was totaled.

BUT... as I have been staging up some additional track days, underwriting has flagged my car and asked why a Mustang GT is being insured for $45K and they won't do it anymore. Basically, I was over-insuring the vehicle and it previously got past underwriting... but the insurance would have been obligated to pay that $45K since they agreed to it. Now they won't do it again. They will agree to the NADA RETAIL value + 50% of the total new MSRP valuation of my aftermarket parts (which I'd have to prove). Rough math ensued between Steve and I and we came to the conclusion that I'd insure it at $35K going forward instead of $45K.

Apparently, my NADA resale value is $32K (like if I sold my car to a private buyer; trade in is 26-28K). Shit... if someone wants to buy my car for $32K - pay me and it's yours! Obviously I'm on the hook for 10% of the payout, but... that's what I will insure at.

wildcatgoal said:

Okay y'all, update on this.

I spoke with Steve Katz who owns the company behind OnTrackInsurance, from whom I have been getting my... on track insurance from thus far.

As noted above, I have been insuring my car at $45K "agreed value". Steve told me that, had I totaled my car in those insured track days, I would have been paid $45K - 10%. So I did get the full value of the insurance I bought: $45K, not a "lesser number" if something, God forbid, actually happened and my car was totaled.

BUT... as I have been staging up some additional track days, underwriting has flagged my car and asked why a Mustang GT is being insured for $45K and they won't do it anymore. Basically, I was over-insuring the vehicle and it previously got past underwriting... but the insurance would have been obligated to pay that $45K since they agreed to it. Now they won't do it again. They will agree to the NADA RETAIL value + 50% of the total new MSRP valuation of my aftermarket parts (which I'd have to prove). Rough math ensued between Steve and I and we came to the conclusion that I'd insure it at $35K going forward instead of $45K.

Apparently, my NADA resale value is $32K (like if I sold my car to a private buyer; trade in is 26-28K). Shit... if someone wants to buy my car for $32K - pay me and it's yours! Obviously I'm on the hook for 10% of the payout, but... that's what I will insure at.

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Did he quote you a premium price at the new lower valuation?

Dave

Yes, their system does that for you - you can go to OnTrackInsurance type in and get the exact same value as me. I can't remember what it was - close to $200 or something maybe? Between the various insurers, I always get largely the same price. I would love to find one that has a lower deductible, though. 10% blows nuts.

I called lockton motorsports. They will only give you the value regardless of what you put in for the amount.

wildcatgoal said:

Okay y'all, update on this.

I spoke with Steve Katz who owns the company behind OnTrackInsurance, from whom I have been getting my... on track insurance from thus far.

As noted above, I have been insuring my car at $45K "agreed value". Steve told me that, had I totaled my car in those insured track days, I would have been paid $45K - 10%. So I did get the full value of the insurance I bought: $45K, not a "lesser number" if something, God forbid, actually happened and my car was totaled.

BUT... as I have been staging up some additional track days, underwriting has flagged my car and asked why a Mustang GT is being insured for $45K and they won't do it anymore. Basically, I was over-insuring the vehicle and it previously got past underwriting... but the insurance would have been obligated to pay that $45K since they agreed to it. Now they won't do it again. They will agree to the NADA RETAIL value + 50% of the total new MSRP valuation of my aftermarket parts (which I'd have to prove). Rough math ensued between Steve and I and we came to the conclusion that I'd insure it at $35K going forward instead of $45K.

Apparently, my NADA resale value is $32K (like if I sold my car to a private buyer; trade in is 26-28K). Shit... if someone wants to buy my car for $32K - pay me and it's yours! Obviously I'm on the hook for 10% of the payout, but... that's what I will insure at.

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Well then their insurance isn't true "agreed value" then. You might as well call Lockton, tell them to tell you what to put in the valuation field, then buy it. That's shady...

wildcatgoal said:

Well then their insurance isn't true "agreed value" then. You might as well call Lockton, tell them to tell you what to put in the valuation field, then buy it. That's shady...

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How does ontracks pricing compare to the rest?

I've compared OnTrack, Lockton, and Hagerty and largely within $10-20... negligible difference. I'm sticking with OnTrack, I avoid Lockton given what they told me about their interpretation of agreed value (similar to what was noted above), and I'd do Hagerty if I had to because I had good experience with them with my old Lincoln.

Fundamentally, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the exact same company in the background paying the claims...

wildcatgoal said:

The above is what I'll probably do going forward... almost to the dollar. Hagerty is nice because you list your mods SEPARATELY and thus they are valued that way, apparently. I value my car at $45K figuring its MSRP was $42K-ish + $3K in mods I'd probably not be able to easily rip off the car before it ends up at The Parts Farm being torn to pieces. Then 10% deductible actually makes it just over $40K which gets me $2K over a new equally equipped S550 with taxes/fees included and a modest mod budget. But I guess I can't use insurance that way, hah. Dang...

I sincerely would prefer if I could add a rider to my regular auto insurance. It's not like they can't find out that the car goes on track, but I get insurance for my track days because the car is not 100% paid off and that brings piece of mind (at least it did) to cover it in the paddock and on track. At least my previous insurance company said if I am participating in the event, I would not have any coverage except theft, even in the paddock. Like if my car started on fire or got hit by someone in the paddock, no pay.

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The paddock is just a parking lot. If your car gets hit outside a football game, it's covered. If it gets hit outside a NASCAR race it's covered. If it gets hit in the paddock at a track your are participating in, it should be covered. Now if it happens in the grid or on the way from the paddock to the track, I can see it maybe not being covered. Definitely not covered on track.

Just for reference what do the HPDE insurance policies usually cost? Aren't they event specific/per weekend deals?

Paddock is not considered a parking lot to Progressive (if participating). These companies are catching on. Tow truck drops your car in the paddock. Guess where people call from and say someone hit and run after cleaning off the mud? Yep...

HPDE insurance is like $150-270 depending on the agreed value you end up at.

Paddock is not considered a parking lot to Progressive (if participating). These companies are catching on. Tow truck drops your car in the paddock. Guess where people call from and say someone hit and run after cleaning off the mud? Yep...

HPDE insurance is like $150-270 depending on the agreed value you end up at.

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So what if you go there as a spectator, or bring our street truck to tow your race car? Did they say that that truck is not going to be covered by regular insurance if it gets hit or totaled while in the paddock?

That seems kind of shady on their part, your street car insurance should cover your car regardless of where you are short of the actual racing pavement.

Check out RLI track day insurance. Agreed value coverage.

Any car that goes on track is not covered in the paddock, per Progressive. The truck you tow with, the trailer, and the fan club's cars should be covered as neither of them go on track.

wildcatgoal said:

I've compared OnTrack, Lockton, and Hagerty and largely within $10-20... negligible difference. I'm sticking with OnTrack, I avoid Lockton given what they told me about their interpretation of agreed value (similar to what was noted above), and I'd do Hagerty if I had to because I had good experience with them with my old Lincoln.

Fundamentally, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the exact same company in the background paying the claims...

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Lockton payouts are from a company called York. They are quick, professional, and generous during a claim.
Don't ask me how I know. :lol:

If all the quotes are the same I would use them again.

wildcatgoal said:

Any car that goes on track is not covered in the paddock, per Progressive. The truck you tow with, the trailer, and the fan club's cars should be covered as neither of them go on track.

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The time of coverage is probably midnight to midnight for the day of the event.

The location is probably within the facility's gates.

Just guessing, with a dose of insurance logic.