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More on the 5.2L FPC Rumor

Trackaholic

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I mentioned this to our technical director, Frank Markus, and he gave me back a virtual earful, “I’m highly skeptical that an engine of 5.0 or 5.2 liters could tolerate a flat-plane crank. All the examples I can find top out at 4.5 liters. The shaking force gets bigger and bigger with displacement. If you want power and quick-revving from a flat-plane crank (which needs no counterbalances and hence has way lower rotational inertia), you dial up the boost to whatever power you need. Balance shafts would almost certainly be required, and their mass begins to negate any possible benefit the added displacement provides.”

Oh boy. Time to do some pavement pounding, which in 2014 means lots of frantic emailing and text messaging. Remember, that a flat-plane crank V-8 is essentially two four-cylinders. Meaning that four-bangers are subject to the same limitations as flat-plane V-8s. Which is why, not that you’ve wondered, you almost never see inline-fours above 2.3-liters of displacement. Some of you may be wondering about the old 2.5-liter and 3.0-liter I-4s from the Porsche 924, 944, and 968. How’d they do that? By licensing balance shaft technology from Mitsubishi, that’s how. Rumor has it that Porsche’s still paying Mitsu royalties for said tech. Anyhow, can Ford do a 5.2-liter flat-plane V-8 without balance shafts? According to our sources, yup.

One source says they’re still working out the kinks. Another says that the kinks are in fact engine accessories. Ford’s solved the second-order vibration issue by attaching a big, honking vibration damper on the end of the crankshaft. That seems to do the trick. However, when testing the GT350 on the Nurburgring those same secondary vibrations backed a bolt out of the car’s starter, shutting down the entire electrical system while the car was going pretty fast. That’s bad. However, the SVT boys and girls have taken the necessary steps and have essentially beefed up the Mustang’s accessories for GT350 duty. We hear they’ve had one spinning happily at 7500 rpm for quite some time for a durability test. As for power, we’re guessing close to 600 hp and around 430 lb-ft of torque. Whatever the final numbers, this is one hopped-up Mustang we’re dying to drive.
http://wot.motortrend.com/1409_ford_shelby_mustang_gt350_to_get_5_2_liter_flat_plane_crank_v_8.html

The 600 HP guess just seems crazy. Since when has anyone made over 100 HP/Liter on a naturally aspirated engine that large without it going in a $200,000 car?

In order to make 600 HP @ 7500 RPM you need to be making 420 lb-ft at that same RPM. The RoadRunner is making what, 444 HP @ 7500 RPM or so? So it's making 310 lb-ft at that RPM. I'm just not seeing how a 4% boost in displacement is going to translate into a 35% increase in HP.

I think even 500 HP is going to be a stretch.

But I hope to be proven wrong in a big way!

-T
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wproctor411

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The 600 HP guess just seems crazy. Since when has anyone made over 100 HP/Liter on a naturally aspirated engine that large without it going in a $200,000 car?

In order to make 600 HP @ 7500 RPM you need to be making 420 lb-ft at that same RPM. The RoadRunner is making what, 444 HP @ 7500 RPM or so? So it's making 310 lb-ft at that RPM. I'm just not seeing how a 4% boost in displacement is going to translate into a 35% increase in HP.

I think even 500 HP is going to be a stretch.

But I hope to be proven wrong in a big way!

-T
They already have 100 hp per liter in an off the shelf engine It's the year 2014 and Ford is a mega large manufacturer who should easily be able to do this.
https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=23300

New tuning, manufacturing and machining techniques developed over the last 20 years are the same reason we get 660 to 700 HP cars relatively cheap that meet emission standards and drive like grocery getters.

It's almost too easy but they have to find the right market value. $80 k if it's a corvette killer.
 

jrease

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"However, when testing the GT350 on the Nurburgring those same secondary vibrations backed a bolt out of the car’s starter, shutting down the entire electrical system while the car was going pretty fast."

I wonder if that is what led to this:


 

BOSS 1601

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"However, when testing the GT350 on the Nurburgring those same secondary vibrations backed a bolt out of the car’s starter, shutting down the entire electrical system while the car was going pretty fast."

I wonder if that is what led to this:
Good thought but if the "entire electrical system" was shut down would the break lights be on?
 

Sterling Archer

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I have literally only word of mouth on this, but a friend of mine that works with someone directly on the team said they literally had problems with the engine grinding into dust with the first few generations. Again, I absolutely no proof to that, but (given the FPC rumor is all about confirmed now) I can say they figured it out a long time ago and the power output is supposed to enormous.

Before anyone asks, again I have no idea what the dyno numbers are, I don't work directly on the team (and for legal purposes, all of my opinions are strictly my own).
 

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1320'

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Didn't that car recover from that and leave the track under its own power?

If the entire electric system failed it would have needed to be dragged away
 

GTMamba

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They already have 100 hp per liter in an off the shelf engine It's the year 2014 and Ford is a mega large manufacturer who should easily be able to do this.
https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=23300

New tuning, manufacturing and machining techniques developed over the last 20 years are the same reason we get 660 to 700 HP cars relatively cheap that meet emission standards and drive like grocery getters.

It's almost too easy but they have to find the right market value. $80 k if it's a corvette killer.
That's with forced induction which we all know is the cheapest way to make extra power. I have to agree with others. An NA 5.2L making 600hp from FORD (not Ferrari etc) and have it come in under 60-70K is too good to be true.

The 2015 GT makes 87 hp/lt and the EB makes 135hp/lt which Ford has touted as being the highest ever in any Ford production car. Of course also with FI. The current GT500 is at 114 hp/lt no doubt much of that due to the blower.

At 600hp for 5.2 NA we are looking at 115 hp/lt topping the GT500..... what are you guys expecting this to cost?
 

ihc95

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I think 500hp is enough. Why give it more power than a Z28 when it's going to weigh less?
 

xlover

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I think 500hp is enough. Why give it more power than a Z28 when it's going to weigh less?
well depending on how they position it, the car might need to fill the GT500s role as well, at least for a year or two, with premium interior, etc. so they might want to at least edge a bit closer to the ZL1 in horsepower...
 

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Todd15Fastback

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That's with forced induction which we all know is the cheapest way to make extra power. I have to agree with others. An NA 5.2L making 600hp from FORD (not Ferrari etc) and have it come in under 60-70K is too good to be true.
The Ferrari uses a lot more exotic materials and components than what Ford would put into this GT350. This car would be all about the running gear and suspension setup vs. ceramic brakes, carbon fiber, ultra high end leather, insane transmission pricing,etc. just my thoughts.

I think Ford could deliver something close to 600HP NA with this FPC motor. This would be a game changer for the American automotive market. Same thing they did with the 03/04 Cobra and reliable high HP FI production motors.
 

TampaBear67

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Good thought but if the "entire electrical system" was shut down would the break lights be on?
I think they meant Electrical Charging System. I'm sure the Battery would have enough of a charge to Light the Brake Lights.
 

on d bit

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If it is north of 550hp would it still be only the replacement for the non svt boss?
 

BOSS 1601

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It's not just a question of making 550+ HP out of and extra 0.2L and a FPC. Think about the changes to the valves, heads, intake, etc plus the possibilities of exhaust side upgrades.

I am not in the automotive business, but am in an R&D environment developing very complex medical diagnostics. Those devices, like engines must be treated as a system when developing and optimizing or you end up with unreliability and failed requirements verification.
 

BMR Tech

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You guys doubting 600hp.....need to realize, the Boss 302 makes 444rwhp with a few "bolt-on" pieces, and aggressive tuning.

That is over 500hp, at the flywheel.

My guess is, the new GT engine (revised coyote) - with some tweaks, is over 500hp already. I mean, it is basically a Boss engine with hyper pistons, larger cams, and a "worse" intake mani.

Throw a CJ intake on the new engine, tune it, it's definitely over 500hp. By a good bit, I bet.
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