Tracking the EcoBoost

CrazedAntelope · Jan 31, 2017

I've taken my EB to the track once! I was in your same shoes. I HATE nose-heavy understeery cars and I wanted a beginner project car to do HPDEs and to wrench on.

I would definitely get the PP. And +1 vote for going to a BMW CCA event. I went to a car control clinic hosted by BMW CCA and it was a hell of a lot of fun.

I am running 100% stock motor so I wasn't too worried about heat soak. This was my first event on track, so I wasn't focusing on how hot my IC was getting. Plus I don't have a Cobb accessport so the only temp gauge I have is my pre-intercooler IATs. The car pulled decently strong still after my 20 minute session... at least I didn't feel it was dragging a$$.

Definelty nothing wrong with running with a 5.0 on track... pretty much everybody here has one. I can't comment on how they compare.

M3Convert · Jan 31, 2017

I don't find the GT particularly "understeery". It pushes like most cars, this is designed into tendencies of road cars as a safety measure...it is better to hit things head on, and drivers tend to brake during an emergency and the understeer compensates for the increased front grip until the tires lose traction.

A "skilled" driver, one driving "at the limit", would be able to easily compensate for this understeer with trail braking on entry and power oversteer on exit of a corner...otherwise they are not driving at/near the maximum slip angles of the tires. The smooth torque of the GT makes it easy to get the back to slide out to rotate the car, it is probably more difficult to judge with a turbo's torque profile (I've haven't tracked a turbo, although I have autocrossed an M4)

My main issue with the GT PP was the rolling, bouncy suspension. This was fixed with the FRPP track pack suspension. I can't wait to try the new BMR vertical links - they really plant the rear!

CrazedAntelope · Jan 31, 2017

M3Convert said:
I don't find the GT particularly "understeery". It pushes like most cars, this is designed into tendencies of road cars as a safety measure...it is better to hit things head on, and drivers tend to brake during an emergency and the understeer compensates for the increased front grip until the tires lose traction.

I should clarify my position that I'm not implying the GT understeers. Basic physics suggests the EB would push less due to less weight on the front axle and better balance.

I stated "I HATE nose-heavy understeery cars and I wanted a beginner project car... to wrench on" because my previous car had a 4.2L V8 that Audi shoe-horned into a midsized sedan. Talk about front heavy and hard to work on!

Again, I have no reference to compare the merits of a GT vs Ecoboost in the real world. Just the ecoboost should be better balanced on paper.

F0J · Jan 31, 2017

M3Convert said:
I don't find the GT particularly "understeery". It pushes like most cars, this is designed into tendencies of road cars as a safety measure...it is better to hit things head on, and drivers tend to brake during an emergency and the understeer compensates for the increased front grip until the tires lose traction.

A "skilled" driver, one driving "at the limit", would be able to easily compensate for this understeer with trail braking on entry and power oversteer on exit of a corner...otherwise they are not driving at/near the maximum slip angles of the tires. The smooth torque of the GT makes it easy to get the back to slide out to rotate the car, it is probably more difficult to judge with a turbo's torque profile (I've haven't tracked a turbo, although I have autocrossed an M4)

My main issue with the GT PP was the rolling, bouncy suspension. This was fixed with the FRPP track pack suspension. I can't wait to try the new BMR vertical links - they really plant the rear!

In the snow, I'd much rather have understeer

I found that going square (I have 265/45R18 RE71Rs) made it much easier to counter understeer, as the back end breaks on command. I could see why one would prefer staggered though as you'd squeak a little more speed on exit especially if you loaded the rear end just right.

I currently have a non-PP GT and I honestly think it's a great car. The stock suspension is "good" though it's a little unpredictable releasing load and if you don't do it just right it'll bobble front to back ad nauseam.

But when you drive in the snow, you realize how much of that weight is affecting the car and you sure as heck don't use all of that power :/

M3Convert · Jan 31, 2017

CrazedAntelope said:
I should clarify my position that I'm not implying the GT understeers. Basic physics suggests the EB would push less due to less weight on the front axle and better balance.

I stated "I HATE nose-heavy understeery cars and I wanted a beginner project car... to wrench on" because my previous car had a 4.2L V8 that Audi shoe-horned into a midsized sedan. Talk about front heavy and hard to work on!

Again, I have no reference to compare the merits of a GT vs Ecoboost in the real world. Just the ecoboost should be better balanced on paper.

A_lways
U_ndersteering
D_espite
I_nput

I almost wrecked an S4 on an on-ramp during a test drive with the understeer. It was unbelievable. I was thinking of swapping out my M3. Audi's are a special case with the engine hanging over the axle. The front double wishbone suspension is impressive. It has to be to keep it under control!

GJarrett · Jan 31, 2017

I have a non-PP EB that I plan to track this spring. I've installed GT brakes in the front, a cp-e intercooler, a Ford Performance tune, BMR CB006 chassis brace, and various other items that I think will make it more track worthy.

This will be my first HPDE event and will learn all I can from the instructors while there. I am looking forward to having a great time with it and think it will do just fine.

GJarrett · Jan 31, 2017

I do have another question about tracking the Ecoboost that I hope is not a thread hijack - I keep reading about the rear differential overheating problems of the GT350s. Does anyone know if that could be an issue for the Ecoboosts, or is it more of an issue of 3.73 pinion speed in Torsen diffys generating excess friction and temps? Does the Ecoboost have the rear differential temp sensor that will put it in limp mode if it does overheat?

F0J · Feb 1, 2017

GJarrett said:
I do have another question about tracking the Ecoboost that I hope is not a thread hijack - I keep reading about the rear differential overheating problems of the GT350s. Does anyone know if that could be an issue for the Ecoboosts, or is it more of an issue of 3.73 pinion speed in Torsen diffys generating excess friction and temps? Does the Ecoboost have the rear differential temp sensor that will put it in limp mode if it does overheat?

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52324

"Heat wrap plus change your diff fluid to 75W/140 weight. Your warnings should stop. About $50 total. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JRCQ9QK/"

Have you had any cooling issues on the track (besides intercooler)?

higdominator · Feb 1, 2017

GJarrett said:
I do have another question about tracking the Ecoboost that I hope is not a thread hijack - I keep reading about the rear differential overheating problems of the GT350s. Does anyone know if that could be an issue for the Ecoboosts, or is it more of an issue of 3.73 pinion speed in Torsen diffys generating excess friction and temps? Does the Ecoboost have the rear differential temp sensor that will put it in limp mode if it does overheat?

It's only an issue for the 350 and 16+ PP GT's with diff sensor.

EFI · Feb 1, 2017

It's only an issue for the 350 and 16+ PP GT's with diff sensor.

Just because there's no temp sensor in there and the dash is giving you an error doesn't mean that there isn't something wrong. You just don't know about it. It's not like simply adding a sensor in there magically created an issue that was not there before.

So while the car may not go into limp mode, measures need to be taken to keep it cool(er).

higdominator · Feb 1, 2017

Guess I should have clarified, the scary warning light is not an issue on the earlier cars.

Competition Orange · Feb 1, 2017

Switching to miller's oils ls 75w110 nt on my gt pp.

No exhaust wrap, no sensor.

GJarrett · Feb 1, 2017

F0J said:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52324

"Heat wrap plus change your diff fluid to 75W/140 weight. Your warnings should stop. About $50 total. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JRCQ9QK/"

Have you had any cooling issues on the track (besides intercooler)?

I haven't tracked it yet, but don't want it to happen when I get there... my first track day will be while visiting my brother in Texas after taking a 1,000+ mile roadtrip to see family. I've already paid for the track day and will be driving over a 2,000 mile round trip to do it - I want to enjoy that day without worrying about overheating or limp mode.

xXANCHORMONXx · Feb 2, 2017

F0J said:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52324

"Heat wrap plus change your diff fluid to 75W/140 weight. Your warnings should stop. About $50 total. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JRCQ9QK/"

Have you had any cooling issues on the track (besides intercooler)?

Pm me if you want to chat. I had the most heavily modified EB on the planet for road course use. Big turbo kit, dual oil coolers, meth injection, BBK etc etc etc etc.

I can go into detail on why you'd be making a massive mistake. Your reasons are good on why you think the EB could be better. There's a reason I sold that POS and bought a GT350, a GTPP was a close option as well.

Anyway pm me if you wish and I can answer any question you have.

c_reber · Feb 2, 2017

xXANCHORMONXx said:
Pm me if you want to chat. I had the most heavily modified EB on the planet for road course use. Big turbo kit, dual oil coolers, meth injection, BBK etc etc etc etc.

I can go into detail on why you'd be making a massive mistake. Your reasons are good on why you think the EB could be better. There's a reason I sold that POS and bought a GT350, a GTPP was a close option as well.

Anyway pm me if you wish and I can answer any question you have.

Talk to this guy! I forgot he changed his username, but I was searching all over and yes here he is to chime in.

In theory I agree with the OP. But I've never driven an EB on a road course (stock or set-up) so cannot compare.

But I gotta say the GTPP with a couple minor mods is a very easy to get into HPDE events to learn and be competetive (need: suspension upgrade (GTPP doesn't mean good track suspension, it means better brakes and 3.73 torsen diff, oil cooler) wheels tires (popular combo is 19x10 285/35 tires)) And that's about it to go have fun with M3's and porsches, etc. Not sure on your ultimate goal...

Tracking the EcoBoost

CrazedAntelope

Well-Known Member

M3Convert

American Muscle Noob

CrazedAntelope

Well-Known Member

F0J

Well-Known Member

M3Convert

American Muscle Noob

GJarrett

Well-Known Member

GJarrett

Well-Known Member

F0J

Well-Known Member

higdominator

Well-Known Member

EFI

Well-Known Member

higdominator

Well-Known Member

Competition Orange

Well-Known Member

GJarrett

Well-Known Member

xXANCHORMONXx

Well-Known Member

c_reber

REB3R