Tracking the EcoBoost

I saw a couple pro builds and it has me thinking - anyone here tracking their EcoBoost?

Less weight, better weight distribution, early torque, tuneability..

I get that most of you guys are looking for speed, but for me: beginner track car and wrench project.

Thoughts?

The local dealer even has a an 2016 EB with PP and Recaros that I could buy at a bargain at this time of the year.

I like my GT but I sometimes wonder if it's a little sassy to learn how to drive track. I plan on hitting the local track this spring.

Thanks!

You'd have to change out the FMIC at a minimum and probably change the brakes.

jon.smith76063 said:

You'd have to change out the FMIC at a minimum and probably change the brakes.

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Thanks. I'll add that I'm not opposed to spending the "right" amount of money on a relatively heavy duty track conversion (safety, endurance, braking, etc.).

For example, could the handling in the EB be that much better that it would be worth downgrading from the V8?

Other plus: better tire and brake pad wear - easier chassis tuning, etc.

Probably be able to take 200-300 lbs off the car overall and putting more weight in the back (cage + moving battery etc.) would almost tip the scales towards the rear end.

I'm getting an EB PP for my daughter's graduation so I've been test driving them and also a non PP car. The PP car is very fun to drive. The PP comes with the GT brakes so they'd need to be upgraded for serious track duty. The economist doesn't have as much understeer as the GT's I've driven. If you add in a tune and FMIC you're going to be at the power level of the GT and it will be a much lighter car. If I were a serious track guy I'd probably lean toward the ecoboost. But you'll HAVE to upgrade the intercooler because they heat soak really, really quickly.

Car is a bit lighter over the front tires, it does track well due to slightly better balance.

Caveat: you HAVE to focus on cooling. an EBM with a tune will go into limp mode with any considerable track use.

FIXES: larger intercooler (see Levels Performance) and possibly an oil cooler (mishimoto).

Other fix includes a larger turbo which I know a couple guys who are running those with success as they can create the same power with less heat generated.



The PP EBM brakes are actually quite nice. I went with the Brembo's on my EBM but in reality, with proper fluid and pads, those PP brakes would do very well on the EBM.

If I keep the engine stock (no tune), will it still heat-soak over a 20 minute session of relatively hard driving?

Any reports of fuel or oil starvation in the EB?

Autocross maybe, roadcourse not a chance.

Competition Orange said:

Autocross maybe, roadcourse not a chance.

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Why not? I sincerely want to know.

Wouldn't the EB out-lap the GT on a tight course?

That 200-300lb difference in weight is a big deal. I don't have any references handy but I know some people built legitimate race cars out of the EB.

Again, my goal is a cheap/casual/beginner track and wrench project.

(I've been working my wife on the idea that we have one of each)

You'll be fine in a GT. As a beginner, you'll be so far off reaching the limits of either an EB or GT to make much of a difference in weight

1) Go to an organized HPDE event. BMW CCA has a lot of QC on their instructors, so that is a good place to start if you aren't sure. Going to an uninstructed event as a noob is a increasing your chances of trouble, learning and maintaining bad habits that slow you down and put you at unnecessary risk

2) Listen to your instructor. Be patient. They are there to make you safe, then safe at speed. You may feel slow in session 1, but you will be much, much faster in subsequent sessions. It is tough to remember braking points, turn-ins, apexes and track outs but it comes quickly and you get the consistency needed to move up groups

3) Listen to your instructor. His thrill is helping someone learn to drive quickly and safely, and see his instruction make a difference. If you don't listen, you won't enjoy improving, he'll get pissed off and its a much longer day in the car!

M3Convert said:

You'll be fine in a GT. As a beginner, you'll be so far off reaching the limits of either an EB or GT to make much of a difference in weight

1) Go to an organized HPDE event. BMW CCA has a lot of QC on their instructors, so that is a good place to start if you aren't sure. Going to an uninstructed event as a noob is a increasing your chances of trouble, learning and maintaining bad habits that slow you down and put you at unnecessary risk

2) Listen to your instructor. Be patient. They are there to make you safe, then safe at speed. You may feel slow in session 1, but you will be much, much faster in subsequent sessions. It is tough to remember braking points, turn-ins, apexes and track outs but it comes quickly and you get the consistency needed to move up groups

3) Listen to your instructor. His thrill is helping someone learn to drive quickly and safely, and see his instruction make a difference. If you don't listen, you won't enjoy improving, he'll get pissed off and its a much longer day in the car!

Click to expand...

While I appreciate the advice, I don't want the conversation to be about my driving ability.

It's exactly why, really, I want to talk about it. I pushed the GT to the limit and I'm considering going to an EB precisely because it'll be easier to drive at the limit. That and I think it'll be cheaper to run (tires + brakes, etc.) in the long run.

F0J said:

Why not? I sincerely want to know.

Wouldn't the EB out-lap the GT on a tight course?

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A tight course, as in an autocross, with the same tire (size too), it's a drivers race, but SCCA national results seem to say just barely (what % of the win can be attributed to driver though?).

F0J said:

That 200-300lb difference in weight is a big deal. I don't have any references handy but I know some people built legitimate race cars out of the EB.

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My car with x pipe and 18x10s is 3670lbs. Weight makes a difference, yes, but so does the engine. Power delivery is better on a N/A car, and pulls all the way to redline. You won't get that behavior in an ecoboost, even modded.

F0J said:

Again, my goal is a cheap/casual/beginner track and wrench project.

(I've been working my wife on the idea that we have one of each)

Click to expand...

Nothing cheap about buying another car.

Keep what you have, learn on that. It is the faster car, and a blank canvas.

M3Convert said:

You'll be fine in a GT. As a beginner, you'll be so far off reaching the limits of either an EB or GT to make much of a difference in weight

1) Go to an organized HPDE event. BMW CCA has a lot of QC on their instructors, so that is a good place to start if you aren't sure. Going to an uninstructed event as a noob is a increasing your chances of trouble, learning and maintaining bad habits that slow you down and put you at unnecessary risk

2) Listen to your instructor. Be patient. They are there to make you safe, then safe at speed. You may feel slow in session 1, but you will be much, much faster in subsequent sessions. It is tough to remember braking points, turn-ins, apexes and track outs but it comes quickly and you get the consistency needed to move up groups

3) Listen to your instructor. His thrill is helping someone learn to drive quickly and safely, and see his instruction make a difference. If you don't listen, you won't enjoy improving, he'll get pissed off and its a much longer day in the car!

Click to expand...

This.

I've already spent half as much the car is worth in tools, wheels and tires. The car is cheap. That's why I like the platform.

But I don't like understeer nor huge weight loads on expensive brakes and tires.

Look there's nothing I say or show you on this forum to prove to you that I'm "capable" of driving at the limit. Let's just assume so and talk about the merits of the EB over the GT.

I track my EB at HPDE events a fair amount. I, for one, love it.

I have passed a number of GT's during these events, but that's probably the driver (not that I'll all that).

I believe the PP is a must. I've had very little trouble with the stock GT brakes on the lighter car. But I've also gone through a set of the stock brake pads. Track work is just hard on a car. The 3:55 rear end also helps. The non-PP EB brakes and rear end will leave you at a considerable disadvantage, and their not cheap upgrades.

I have tracked the car bone stock and fairly modified with NO immediate ill affects. Any car on the track should probably look into improving cooling, but the EB desperately needs a larger intercooler, even if you're not taking it to the track.

The GT comes with a staggered tire setup which contributes greatly to its understeer. Either car, in general, is quite heavy and last year I went through a set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports. That could be due to poor setup, poor driving or improper pressures or a combination of all three. I've added camber and have steadily gotten better but I'm still trying to figure out the tire pressure thing. I don't know if I've actually benefited from the 200-300# advantage I have over the GT, but the square setup on the PP also allows me swap tires around, side to side and front to back. It's given me improved life on the second set of tires.

My favorite feature of the EB is that I am at least competitive on the track and I get 30 mpg to and from the track. I also like the noises the turbo makes. My guess is that more people prefer the v8 rumble. That's really the only savings you'll get with an EB over a GT.

There is another guy here on this forum with the handle "impuled7". He's got more than 12K track miles on his EB. Makes me look like a newb. He and I both post videos to Youtube. He is consistently harassing BMW's, Porsche's and others.

Oooo...
One other issue is that some upgrade parts are more difficult to find for the EB.

I'm upgrading my clutch this spring and have gotten all the parts ready to go. The number of choices available for the GT is somewhat huge compared to the EB.

There is a long list of suppliers for power adders for the EB and the chassis is exactly the same, but connecting the two seems a little difficult.

Also, ordering brake parts from some of the main-line online sites can be less than confidence inspiring. You really need to go with the vendors that are regulars on this forum that know what their talking about.