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Kind of disappointed with the brake pad wear

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Gatorac

Gatorac

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Looking at the pads again I noticed they are tapered top to bottom as well as front to back. I believe the R12 did not have enough bite for me so I was compensating with increased pedal pressure. That can lead to spreading the calipers and causing the top to bottom taper. R16 will probably be a better choice.

I am going to move to a different pad and see how it goes. Typically don't expect to need to run as aggressive of a pad as someone on slicks when I'm on street tires. But I do tend to overdrive whatever I'm driving. Perhaps some more cooling to the front brakes is in order as well.
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Didn't realize you only ran street tires. Are you getting into the ABS a lot? I have used the R18 GLocs, they are pretty good. Do you have g data for braking? Those pads look like you are using them hard.
 
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Couldn't really get into the ABS. Braking at .9 G's into 7.
 

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Looking at the pads again I noticed they are tapered top to bottom as well as front to back. I believe the R12 did not have enough bite for me so I was compensating with increased pedal pressure. That can lead to spreading the calipers and causing the top to bottom taper. R16 will probably be a better choice.

I am going to move to a different pad and see how it goes. Typically don't expect to need to run as aggressive of a pad as someone on slicks when I'm on street tires. But I do tend to overdrive whatever I'm driving. Perhaps some more cooling to the front brakes is in order as well.
I am surprised that on a street tire you are having any issues with brake pads. I run NT-01 and R7 and run the Carbotech XP20 / XP12 combo and have found that setup to be very good. Very well balanced and zero fade. I do have 3" brake ducts to the front rotors and am working on a rear brake cooling solution.

For years I ran a Tarox BBK on my NSX with XP12 / XP10 combo and had a horrible time with uneven pad wear, it was so bad that I could not even get through a 3 day weekend at COTA. COTA is another track that will test any braking systems. I bumped my compounds to XP20 / XP12 combo and my problems did not go away completely but they were much improved. The fronts were cured but the rears still had a slight uneven wear to them but not enough to warrant further research. Cooling is the key to pad and rotor life, many times we keep moving the pads up the scale looking to improve the brakes but really getting a lower compound within its heat range often can provide better pad and rotor life.

I know the G-Lock and Carbotech are similar in makeup but I think the XP20 and R16 may be the same pad material, but I am not sure, they at least have very similar heat ranges. I can tell you the XP20 are too aggressive for the rear but if you like a lot of initial bite it is an excellent choice for the front of these cars.

Dave
 

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The track is either hard on brakes or you may be a late braker. If that's the case I would go to a higher GLOC pad or switch to Ferodo.

The Ferodo DSUNO is one of my favorite pads I've ever used. They are also swap friendly with the oem pads.
 

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I am surprised that on a street tire you are having any issues with brake pads. I run NT-01 and R7 and run the Carbotech XP20 / XP12 combo and have found that setup to be very good. Very well balanced and zero fade. I do have 3" brake ducts to the front rotors and am working on a rear brake cooling solution.

For years I ran a Tarox BBK on my NSX with XP12 / XP10 combo and had a horrible time with uneven pad wear, it was so bad that I could not even get through a 3 day weekend at COTA. COTA is another track that will test any braking systems. I bumped my compounds to XP20 / XP12 combo and my problems did not go away completely but they were much improved. The fronts were cured but the rears still had a slight uneven wear to them but not enough to warrant further research. Cooling is the key to pad and rotor life, many times we keep moving the pads up the scale looking to improve the brakes but really getting a lower compound within its heat range often can provide better pad and rotor life.

I know the G-Lock and Carbotech are similar in makeup but I think the XP20 and R16 may be the same pad material, but I am not sure, they at least have very similar heat ranges. I can tell you the XP20 are too aggressive for the rear but if you like a lot of initial bite it is an excellent choice for the front of these cars.

Dave
XP20=R16. You can match it with a R10 in the rear with the R12 or R16. If you want more rear brake (there isn't much rotor surface to start) you could go to R12 but for most it may be too much rear brake. Again everyone has a different feel and style. The OE rear pads are shaved to a tiny surface area and they (For me) get hot well before the fronts.
I am hoping to make the 3 day event at Daytona, which is a fairly simple circuit and I had the horseshoe beat into me this spring so the plan is to run an R10/R8 and switch to R12/R10 during the three days to help guide customers better on what pads they should run. I'm doing this on 340 tread wear tires because the car is more comfortable to me on the still mostly stock suspension. The P-Zeros cover too many mistakes and I still have a lot of learning to do. My issue with the P-Zeros is they stick too well for the stock suspension and when you reach the limit (suspension surprises you) the tires are very unforgiving. I have a lot more confidence in the Comp2's.
 

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My R12 after 4 events (3+ hours each event) at a track with lots of heavy braking. No taper issues, just short life. :(

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Untitled by Stoli-v, on Flickr.

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Untitled by Stoli-v, on Flickr
 

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My R12/R10 after a 2-day event (~4hrs track time) at VIR. I might have two sessions left in the front pads, the rears have barely any wear. Wish we could get better pad life, but a track like VIR is very tough on brakes!

BTW, I got a set of the Ti shims from Tim [MENTION=22413]Optimum Performance[/MENTION]. They fit perfect and kept my dust boots looking like new. Something to really look into. These will help keep heat away from the calipers/fluid and will pay for themselves after your caliper seals/dust boots get baked without them (the replacements are not cheap and is a PITA).



 

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My R12/R10 after a 2-day event (~4hrs track time) at VIR. I might have two sessions left in the front pads, the rears have barely any wear. Wish we could get better pad life, but a track like VIR is very tough on brakes!

BTW, I got a set of the Ti shims from Tim [MENTION=22413]Optimum Performance[/MENTION]. They fit perfect and kept my dust boots looking like new. Something to really look into. These will help keep heat away from the calipers/fluid and will pay for themselves after your caliper seals/dust boots get baked without them (the replacements are not cheap and is a PITA).



Looks like it may be time to move up to an R16.
 

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Don't they wear even quicker?
R16's will last longer than R10's/R12's.

To extend brake pad life you want to brake as late as possible and as hard as possible then get off the brakes. You basically want to be into the abs every time. You want to be off the brake pedal as much as possible. If you have a habit of easing on the pedal at the 5 marker because of the speed you are carrying put your big boy pants on and bury that pedal at the 3 or 2 marker ;) (Disclaimer: Work up to it) Brake Hard and Brake Short = Longer Pad Life

Stability control will also cause accelerated wear because it is also doing something in the background, if you feel it or not. On all these cars shutting it off it still is a semi-mystery if it is ever completely off.

Brake cooling, which you both have also makes a big difference.

End of the day its a 3800-4000 Mustang not a Miata :D You use up brakes.
 

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BTW, I got a set of the Ti shims from Tim [MENTION=22413]Optimum Performance[/MENTION]. They fit perfect and kept my dust boots looking like new. Something to really look into. These will help keep heat away from the calipers/fluid and will pay for themselves after your caliper seals/dust boots get baked without them (the replacements are not cheap and is a real PITA.
I will be doing the boot replacement in the spring because I was a dummy and didn't get the titanium shims this spring. Boots are fried front and rear. Any tips on the fronts? Rears will have to be new calipers as the boots aren't available separate...
 

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Hey Jim!

Former Chin Instructor Jeremy Lamm here with the black '04 Z.

I agree with the other members that the pad taper is caused from the calipers, not the pads. I had the same problem on my Z with the stock calipers. It lessened when I went to an Essex AP T1 brake kit (12.8"). I also had the backing plates turn white on my Carbotech XP 20 brake pads at Sebring multiple times.

I believe the whiteness is caused from too much heat. Even with brake ducting, spindle ducts, aggressive pads, and the upgraded brake kit those small brakes were just too much for the Z's speeds to slow it down and not blow through pads. I would get about 2-3 days out of a front set and then they were down to the backing plate.

Do you have spindle ducts and ducting? While the brake calipers are large on the Mustang the car is still heavy so it's going to generate heat and need some serious pads IMO.

As you know, Sebring is hell on brakes so it could be a simple as those pads aren't aggressive enough for your driving and the cars capabilities and you need cooling!

Jeremy
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