Tunes

tdzee said:

My MY17R will soon be delivered. Been searching the tune threads and it seems that stock intake with a 93 tune gets pretty good results thru the middle part of the curve. Headers add some more over 6K or so.

Makes me just want a tune without mods (but only IF this is not detectable). Therefore, I need to know the answer to this excellent question. Did not see a reply.

Any feedback appreciated.

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Returning to stock tune is basically undetectable, they can tell it's been x amount of starts and x amount of time since ECU was reset but that's about it as long as the physical evidence (Ngauge wire, installed in dash, etc) is not present.

KenF said:

Returning to stock tune is basically undetectable, they can tell it's been x amount of starts and x amount of time since ECU was reset but that's about it as long as the physical evidence (Ngauge wire, installed in dash, etc) is not present.

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No such thing as an undetectable tune. OEM ECU's and sensors in the car can record min/max values of various tuning aspects; it is these that can reveal whether tuning parameters outside of the OEM tune have been changed on the vehicle. It isn't hard for OEM's to determine if a car has been run outside of the factory parameters through forensics these days.

J_Maher_AMG said:

No such thing as an undetectable tune. OEM ECU's and sensors in the car can record min/max values of various tuning aspects; it is these that can reveal whether tuning parameters outside of the OEM tune have been changed on the vehicle. It isn't hard for OEM's to determine if a car has been run outside of the factory parameters through forensics these days.

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It begs the question do you think your dealer who 9 times out of 10 knows less about your car than you do is going to complete a complete forensic investigation of your computer? Do you think they are even capable of doing it? Also the min/max levels while recorded can also be purged so while I will concede you are correct NOTHING is undetectable the chances of a dealership detecting such tune are extremely slim if you take the precautions I laid out in the previous post.

In the end modifying your car in any way has it's inherent risks to it. Use your brain, don't do stupid shit, know the repercussions of the changes you are making, and consult with those who have more knowledge than you do, and you will be fine. But if you are unwilling to accept any risk then leave your car stock and move on with your life as there is nothing that is 100% when doing this.

I've heard some good things about Oz tuning. They have done a few, including one that was pro-charged.

considering there has been zero tune related failures to my knowledge, I think waiting a few K miles and watching oil consumption is a good first start, but I didn't worry as much about the tune / warranty after my engine was proven. Every one damaged I have seen was early due to defects, assembly, oil pump or filter failure, or boost related.

Had been considering boost, but the more research I do, the more I think I will stick to tuning it.

Fellas - about to pull the trigger on a tune. I am up in Canada and will need to use one of these online gigs.

Any updated info on which way to go? The car will not be receiving any headers or exhaust upgrades.

Just MGW, Vorshlag Camber Plates and a Tune. Looking for a bit more in the low/mid end of the spectrum.

KenF said:

It begs the question do you think your dealer who 9 times out of 10 knows less about your car than you do is going to complete a complete forensic investigation of your computer? Do you think they are even capable of doing it? Also the min/max levels while recorded can also be purged so while I will concede you are correct NOTHING is undetectable the chances of a dealership detecting such tune are extremely slim if you take the precautions I laid out in the previous post.

In the end modifying your car in any way has it's inherent risks to it. Use your brain, don't do stupid shit, know the repercussions of the changes you are making, and consult with those who have more knowledge than you do, and you will be fine. But if you are unwilling to accept any risk then leave your car stock and move on with your life as there is nothing that is 100% when doing this.

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If you have a significant failure with the drivetrain Ford will send out a field engineer. They will do a check on the pcm and bcm as well as complete visual inspection before authorizing a tear down. I had a failure in a completely stock 2012 GT and personally went through this. Motor was replaced under warranty but it took roughly 6 weeks for the total repair.

RubyRedBoost said:

If you have a significant failure with the drivetrain Ford will send out a field engineer. They will do a check on the pcm and bcm as well as complete visual inspection before authorizing a tear down. I had a failure in a completely stock 2012 GT and personally went through this. Motor was replaced under warranty but it took roughly 6 weeks for the total repair.

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This. If you check out the viper forums there was a big debacle with dodge not replacing blown motors if they had been running a different tune, even if they were running the stock tune at the time the motor blew.

I will say this. I had a 2013 F150 ecoboost. Lost 2 motors in 22k. I was tuned both times the failure occured. I pulled the tune out, and ran the battery dead both times. They covered both of them. They said a injector had stuck both times (Or at least that is what they thought). Windowed both blocks. My 2 cents. Needless to say, that I traded that truck off as soon as they told me that they were warranting the engine.

JN66 said:

Fellas - about to pull the trigger on a tune. I am up in Canada and will need to use one of these online gigs.

Any updated info on which way to go? The car will not be receiving any headers or exhaust upgrades.

Just MGW, Vorshlag Camber Plates and a Tune. Looking for a bit more in the low/mid end of the spectrum.

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Lund Racing. They have established themselves as the premeire tuner for Ford performance applications for more than a decade. Coincidentally I emailed them yesterday about performance expectations. The response I got was the throttle will be more responsive and "cleaned up" down low. Gains will be dependent on fuel....approx 15-20 for 92-93. For me, I really like how their curve is smoothed out down low and not jumping all around. I will likely be going this route soon.

CSL said:

Lund Racing. They have established themselves as the premeire tuner for Ford performance applications for more than a decade. Coincidentally I emailed them yesterday about performance expectations. The response I got was the throttle will be more responsive and "cleaned up" down low. Gains will be dependent on fuel....approx 15-20 for 92-93. For me, I really like how their curve is smoothed out down low and not jumping all around. I will likely be going this route soon.

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Noted. Thank you Sir.

JN66 said:

Noted. Thank you Sir.

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Here's my info for you.
I have a Lund tune, when I first prototyped the headers for ARH I did 3 100% stock baseline dyno pulls. Average was 454 rwhp at Watson racings dynojet.
This was on 93 octane Sunoco.

I installed my headers and went back to watson for 3 more dyno pulls.
Still on stock tune, still on the same tank of 93 and still 100% stock minus the headers and catless x pipe.
On the same dyno I pulled 485 rwhp.

I then installed Lunds tune for a stock CAI.
I couldn't get the tune to take on the first try, it took 3 tries to finally accept. Once I finished installing the tune we tried a dyno pull. On this pull it sparked knocked and the dyno operator shut it down. I contacted Lund and found out that beefcake sent Lund the wrong info and sent me a 5.0 tune. I was pretty pissed to say the least. Not only with beefcake but also with John lunds attitude because he felt as if Watson racing was judging him (which they were not in anyway judging him) in fact they praised him and very much liked the Ngauge.

But johns attitude on the phone was questioning me as to why I had my car on watsons dyno and why I was checking out his tune. What he couldn't understand is that nobody was doubting his tune but something wasn't right and when he looked into the info he noticed I was sent the 5.0 tune and that is why it ran like shit.
After he emailed me the correct tune and I loaded it into my car I went from 485 to 511 rwhp. This is still on the same day. Same fuel. Same dyno. Pretty impressive. He then sent me a tune for the JLT intake. I installed the JLT and dynoed it again. This time I pulled a 512 rwhp. Off came the JLT and in my garage cabinet it sits.

Since then I switch to 100 octane Sunoco 260 GT race gas that I run exclusively. I did some data logging on the 100 octane and John sent me 3 additional tunes. I went back to Watson and dynoed it again this time pulling 534 rwhp.
534 rwhp on 100 octane, stock CAI, ARH long tubes, catless x pipe, stock mufflers. I'm happy with it.

My advice is do NOT BUY from any vendor no matter what!
And if you have access to higher octane gas use it. You can use 98-100+ race gas and the computer will add timing until it detects knock. This also increases hp. And I'm talking on a stock tune. Not a aftermarket tune. So if your concerns are warranty stick with a stock tune and run the highest race fuel you can get. Or get a tune directly from Lund.

I'll throw my AED tune experience into the mix as well.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81203

chops44 said:

I'll throw my AED tune experience into the mix as well.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81203

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Man - just the headers along makes a huge difference eh?