Autocross and now service advance trac?

Time to push for 13.9.G to be rewritten - or at least interpreted - to allow modifications to defeat ESC/TC in cars that do have the OE ability to be turned off just like such is already allowed for cars that don't have that OE capability.

The logic being that if ESC/TC can turn themselves back on, you do not have the same level of 'defeat' available to you as drivers whose cars do not have any OE ability to turn them off but were granted the 13.9.G allowance. If you have to shut down and re-start in order to return the ESC/TC to 'off', you're put in exactly the same situation as not having OE ability to turn them off at all . . . just midway through your run.

Let's put everybody in 'Street' on the same footing as the driver in the 25 y/o car that never had ESC or TC at all.

I'd write the letter myself if I was still autocrossing.


Norm

Norm Peterson said:

Time to push for 13.9.G to be rewritten - or at least interpreted - to allow modifications to defeat ESC/TC in cars that do have the OE ability to be turned off just like such is already allowed for cars that don't have that OE capability.

The logic being that if ESC/TC can turn themselves back on, you do not have the same level of 'defeat' available to you as drivers whose cars do not have any OE ability to turn them off but were granted the 13.9.G allowance. If you have to shut down and re-start in order to return the ESC/TC to 'off', you're put in exactly the same situation as not having OE ability to turn them off at all . . . just midway through your run.

Let's put everybody in 'Street' on the same footing as the driver in the 25 y/o car that never had ESC or TC at all.

I'd write the letter myself if I was still autocrossing.


Norm

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Norm - The 25 year old cars are not beating the new cars in Street class at national level events. Therefore it would be hard to make the case. ;)

Should at least be able to make the case by comparing against cars that already are allowed to use 13.9.G. IOW, take ESC/TC out of the picture for everybody for the entire run. Otherwise street category eventually stops being nearly as much about driver skill at the limit and more about the car's ESC tuning.


Norm

As TDC mentioned, when the issue happens on the GT350 the run has become a total waste. Defaults to full nannies and no way to fix it without a restart. :(

My EBPP has exhibited both behaviors. On the Talladega banking the warnings went off and the car changed back to normal mode. When the warnings have gone off at an autocross it has just been a distraction with no noticeable change in actual car mode.

Norm Peterson said:

Should at least be able to make the case by comparing against cars that already are allowed to use 13.9.G. IOW, take ESC/TC out of the picture for everybody for the entire run. Otherwise street category eventually stops being nearly as much about driver skill at the limit and more about the car's ESC tuning.


Norm

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How do you permanently disable the S550 ESC/TC? We don't know yet why it either errors or errors and turns itself back on. Do we even know how to disable it permanently?

Street category is already kinda about a car's ESC tuning right now. I got out of an analog car and into this S550 because the ESC tuning of another car made my analog one obsolete and able to do things mine couldn't (in GS).

SteveW said:

How do you permanently disable the S550 ESC/TC? We don't know yet why it either errors or errors and turns itself back on. Do we even know how to disable it permanently?

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First guess - unplug the yaw sensor.


Norm

I'd encourage everyone who is experiencing these errors to check for loose play in their suspension. Check wheel hubs are tight, suspension bolts are secure, etc.

After hundreds of autox runs, I started seeing these warnings right around the time I had a loose rear hub show up, and once I fixed it I haven't seen the error yet again.

UPDATE:

Seems like there is a method to stop this from happening with my 350. The tips in this thread were very helpful. It sucks but works. Steps are:

- hold car steady ( at rest) place into "Track" mode. Completely turn off Advancetrac by holding the toggle for 7-9 seconds

- go out for your first run to learn the course at a reasonably hard level and let the system fault out to "Normal" mode. When the fault notification clears by itself (typically happens within 10 seconds while heading back to the grid) toggle back into "Track" mode.

- when at rest in the grid completely turn off Advancetrac again by holding toggle for 7-9 seconds

- during the above and the rest of your session don't turn off the car or change modes

Using this undesirable method results in no faults for the rest of the runs. The hood is left open in between runs to help manage engine heat and I periodically lightly increase engine RPM to increase oil pressure.

At a loss for why it needs to fault out first before it will hold "Track" mode for the remainder of the sessions which are run harder than the first session. Oh well, whatever, at least I can compete again.

Glad to hear that's working for you. The Pocono event I did yesterday I had zero issues, even with a lot of VERY aggressive braking and full throttle silliness. 90 mph full threshold braking into a hard bumpy right and no issues.

I did pretty much exactly what you said, but I didn't have the first run issues. The last couple of events I did I ran into the issue on first runs like you and did the same steps with no further issues.

Really sucks leaving the car on. Oil temps and such drop, but intake temps skyrocket and it's like a furnace for the front tires :(

DocWalt said:

Really sucks leaving the car on. Oil temps and such drop, but intake temps skyrocket and it's like a furnace for the front tires :(

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Seems like your car is less temperamental. Hey at least we can find a way to enjoy the autox experience with these cars.
Front tire preheat, good point. No tire warming necessary on the road

Was the Pocono event with NEPA? I ran with them at a regional event last year as my very first autox. Funny, when they asked is this anyone's first time I was alone with my hand raised in a field of 200 drivers Many chuckles could be heard.

So it's not quite legal for street class unfortunately, but maybe a fix for local events where it's "ok" to stretch this rule a little bit?

Or just take a picture and upload it showing where it is instead of linking the other place which will get taken down soon by a mod

nice edit *thumbs up*

DocWalt said:

So it's not quite legal for street class unfortunately, but maybe a fix for local events where it's "ok" to stretch this rule a little bit?

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I think you would to at least find Ford documentation indicating the purpose of the connector and what, if anything, else it does or disables. If all it does is disable the nannies which the rule allows to be disabled it "should" be legit since the oem setting isn't reliable.

There is another recent thread here discussing the connector. Out of curiosity I searched the 2015 FSM CD with no luck even though the info on disabling "nannies" was mentioned. I might try looking again if my ordered 18 develops the problem and it has the jumper. Note my 2015 GT has the jumper but my car is finished autocrossing (and most driving) until it is traded on the 18.

HOWEVER, for cars with MagneRide the settings may be linked to whatever the "test jumper" does with T/C and Advance Trac. With the 18 GT MagneRide "mode" is selected by the "drive mode" and is not independent like it may be on the GT350. Therefore it appears from the owner manual that "track" drive mode must be selected to get the stiffest damper setting and then turn off Advance Trac

DickR said:

I think you would to at least find Ford documentation indicating the purpose of the connector and what, if anything, else it does or disables. If all it does is disable the nannies which the rule allows to be disabled it "should" be legit since the oem setting isn't reliable.

There is another recent thread here discussing the connector. Out of curiosity I searched the 2015 FSM CD with no luck even though the info on disabling "nannies" was mentioned. I might try looking again if my ordered 18 develops the problem and it has the jumper. Note my 2015 GT has the jumper but my car is finished autocrossing (and most driving) until it is traded on the 18.

HOWEVER, for cars with MagneRide the settings may be linked to whatever the "test jumper" does with T/C and Advance Trac. With the 18 GT MagneRide "mode" is selected by the "drive mode" and is not independent like it may be on the GT350. Therefore it appears from the owner manual that "track" drive mode must be selected to get the stiffest damper setting and then turn off Advance Trac

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The Magneride is linked to drive modes on the GT350 as well, sort of. To get the stiffest setting you have to be in track mode, the middle setting is available in normal mode. I personally rarely use the track suspension setting anyway...

The biggest issue that I foresee is that if it upsets the car in some way then you can't change any settings on the GT350, it just goes into default super lame-mode

I'll play with it sometime, not sure I'll be racing the Mustang again this year, I have a bunch of co-drives lined up to help set up cars/lose Simmons contingency and what-not.

edit: I unplugged it on my car and I get the lights on and a DTC or two related to bad information from the ABS pump. I can still put it in track mode with no issue. I didn't head out to test it on public streets for obvious reasons, but I imagine it'll be fine.