RE11 vs PSS

This is a great discussion, but I have a question. Isn't one of the two Bridgestone tires being discussed a poor choice for HPDE's, but good for autocross? Something about the tire getting hot and greasy with our heavier cars out on a track?

I have heard/read that about the RE71R. They supposedly do well for shorter autox style runs but if they get too hot, like after several laps on a road course, they can become greasy and lose grip

I've chunked a set of brand new MPSS at Autoclub Speedway in the 1st session! I was late for first session in my M3 and forgot to change to track wheels. :(

MPSS is NOT a high performance tire.

MPSS is said to be a very good street performance tire and that's about it. I personally think MPSS is an overpriced, mediocre tire period. I can tell you from personal experience both on and off track. I had gone through 2 full sets because I got them for stupid discount. But I do love how wide they run!

The best dual purpose tire that is as just a hair slower than a RE71R and as fast as a Hankook RS-3 but also gets substantially better treadwear is the Yokohama AD08R. They are surprisingly good in moderate rain.

They have the grip of the RS-3, stiffer sidewalls, handles heat better than RS-3 or RE71R and treadwear of a 300 tire.

They are expensive though but you get what you pay for. I'd recommend this if you don't have a dedicated set.

MPSS will chunk if you run them too hard with not enough camber when they're new. After a few thousand miles they may harden up should be less likely to chunk. I think probably the lack of camber is the main factor here. If you have enough of it, they may be fine when new.

RE11s have a stiffer sidewall than the MPSS or Conti offerings, which is why I would look at them for track use, if you don't need the grip of the RE71R.

RE71R really do hold up fine to the heat and abuse of track use and don't get 'greasy'. Guys who are spreading that rumor really should get some personal first hand experience or shut the heck up. My last set which was past the wear bars did loosen up slightly at the end of a long hard track session (20 minutes), but I attribute that to being past the 'good' compound and into the structural stuff on the shoulders. They're nothing like other tires I've driven that got 'greasy' when hot. Maybe they loose a little bit of their edge, but its nothing like some tires get. At my last track day (75 degree temps, 15 minute sessions and some water on track) there was no hint of any lost grip at the end of those sessions.

Please, don't spread rumors if you don't have first-hand experience with a tire.

^^^^ what he said. RE11s are fine for me like I said above. The only other tire I have first hand experience with on track is a NT05. Those were on my Factory Five Daytona Coupe replica that weighed somewhere around 2300lbs and had 400hp....they got hot real fast and didnt stick anywhere.

NightmareMoon said:

MPSS will chunk if you run them too hard with not enough camber when they're new. After a few thousand miles they may harden up should be less likely to chunk. I think probably the lack of camber is the main factor here. If you have enough of it, they may be fine when new.

RE11s have a stiffer sidewall than the MPSS or Conti offerings, which is why I would look at them for track use, if you don't need the grip of the RE71R.

RE71R really do hold up fine to the heat and abuse of track use and don't get 'greasy'. Guys who are spreading that rumor really should get some personal first hand experience or shut the heck up. My last set which was past the wear bars did loosen up slightly at the end of a long hard track session (20 minutes), but I attribute that to being past the 'good' compound and into the structural stuff on the shoulders. They're nothing like other tires I've driven that got 'greasy' when hot. Maybe they loose a little bit of their edge, but its nothing like some tires get. At my last track day (75 degree temps, 15 minute sessions and some water on track) there was no hint of any lost grip at the end of those sessions.

Please, don't spread rumors if you don't have first-hand experience with a tire.

Click to expand...

I completely agree with you. Most people on here are making statements without first hand knowledge. RE71R do not overheat anymore than any other Extreme Summer tire. In fact they are better than a Hankook RS-3 in terms of handling heat. They are not quite as good as AD08R but they are at least as good as the average extreme summer tire in terms of heat handling.

With that said, I have first hand experience on RE71R. 4 sets to be exact.
All miles on track on a dedicated track car with camber. I have driven them in all seasons. They are awesome in fair weather. But just like any street tire, they will get greasy in hot weather. They are probably the fastest track tire on market today. But they do not last. I haven't gotten more than 5.0 track days out of any one set. I corded a set in 3.5 track days once. =(. But again, from a pure performance standpoint, RE71R is the best high performance street tire at the moment.

I have Hankook RS-4 on order that I'm trying out. I'm a big Hankook fan so hopefully these will outperform the RS-3.

Regarding MPSS, I chunked MPSS on 1st session of Autoclub Speedway (less than 600 street driven miles), on my track prepped e46 m3. I have -3.7F and -2.5R running JRZ RS Pros on a 3,000 lbs weight (without driver). It chunked on 1st session and tires were toast.

I had broken in the tire enough for the rubber fibers to stretch and stick back together. I don't care what people say. MPSS to me is marketing success but a crappy tire, for the money.

Back to my initial response, the OP seems like a novice that needs a dual purpose tire. Yokohama is all the grip he will ever need with excellent treadwear for such a grippy tire. They are one of the best Extreme summer tires. Just a touch pricey.

NightmareMoon said:

RE71R really do hold up fine to the heat and abuse of track use and don't get 'greasy'. Guys who are spreading that rumor really should get some personal first hand experience or shut the heck up. My last set which was past the wear bars did loosen up slightly at the end of a long hard track session (20 minutes), but I attribute that to being past the 'good' compound and into the structural stuff on the shoulders. They're nothing like other tires I've driven that got 'greasy' when hot. Maybe they loose a little bit of their edge, but its nothing like some tires get. At my last track day (75 degree temps, 15 minute sessions and some water on track) there was no hint of any lost grip at the end of those sessions.

Click to expand...

That's exactly why I was asking the question. I'm out in SoCal where most of the tracks are in a desert climate that can get warm in summer (90+ degrees). Would you say the RE71 still holds up well to those warm track temps?

NvrFinished said:

That's exactly why I was asking the question. I'm out in SoCal where most of the tracks are in a desert climate that can get warm in summer (90+ degrees). Would you say the RE71 still holds up well to those warm track temps?

Click to expand...

Why don't you ask me? I'm a SoCal track guy.

Like I said above, RE71R is the best performing street tire on track. Bar none. This does not include any new 2017 compounds that I'm not aware of.

Best grip, moderately stiff sidewalls, good heat handling for a street tire and excellent braking.

It will handle Buttonwillow heat as good as any street tire save for the AD08R in summer.

hulk_smash said:

Why don't you ask me? I'm a SoCal track guy.

Like I said above, RE71R is the best performing street tire on track. Bar none. This does not include any new 2017 compounds that I'm not aware of.

Best grip, moderately stiff sidewalls, good heat handling for a street tire and excellent braking.

It will handle Buttonwillow heat as good as any street tire save for the AD08R in summer.

Click to expand...

A SoCal guy, fantastic! Thanks for the info as it answers a lot of my questions. I was just up at Buttonwillow this past weekend and I'm at the point I'm going to need some better tires. Trying to find reliable info on the subject is almost like opening a thread on oil - almost anyways :headbonk:

I'm still on the factory performance package tires and wheels with new wheels and tires coming soon. I'm just trying to decided on 1 set of multi use tires and wheels or have a separate dedicated track set if the budget allows.

NvrFinished said:

A SoCal guy, fantastic! Thanks for the info as it answers a lot of my questions. I was just up at Buttonwillow this past weekend and I'm at the point I'm going to need some better tires. Trying to find reliable info on the subject is almost like opening a thread on oil - almost anyways :headbonk:

I'm still on the factory performance package tires and wheels with new wheels and tires coming soon. I'm just trying to decided on 1 set of multi use tires and wheels or have a separate dedicated track set if the budget allows.

Click to expand...

Apex 18x10 would be a great option for track wheels without breaking the bank.

I'm also pretty happy with the SVE drifts. Quite a bit lighter than the PP wheels and 9.5" wide, so you could run a 285/35R19 without issue. That's my plan at least.

NightmareMoon said:

MPSS will chunk if you run them too hard with not enough camber when they're new. After a few thousand miles they may harden up should be less likely to chunk. I think probably the lack of camber is the main factor here. If you have enough of it, they may be fine when new.

RE11s have a stiffer sidewall than the MPSS or Conti offerings, which is why I would look at them for track use, if you don't need the grip of the RE71R.

RE71R really do hold up fine to the heat and abuse of track use and don't get 'greasy'. Guys who are spreading that rumor really should get some personal first hand experience or shut the heck up. My last set which was past the wear bars did loosen up slightly at the end of a long hard track session (20 minutes), but I attribute that to being past the 'good' compound and into the structural stuff on the shoulders. They're nothing like other tires I've driven that got 'greasy' when hot. Maybe they loose a little bit of their edge, but its nothing like some tires get. At my last track day (75 degree temps, 15 minute sessions and some water on track) there was no hint of any lost grip at the end of those sessions.

Please, don't spread rumors if you don't have first-hand experience with a tire.

Click to expand...

Not sure if this was aimed at my last post but I only stated that I had "heard/read" that the RE71R got greasy on a road course, never clamied to have first-hand experience.

hulk_smash said:

I completely agree with you. Most people on here are making statements without first hand knowledge. RE71R do not overheat anymore than any other Extreme Summer tire. In fact they are better than a Hankook RS-3 in terms of handling heat. They are not quite as good as AD08R but they are at least as good as the average extreme summer tire in terms of heat handling.

With that said, I have first hand experience on RE71R. 4 sets to be exact.
All miles on track on a dedicated track car with camber. I have driven them in all seasons. They are awesome in fair weather. But just like any street tire, they will get greasy in hot weather. They are probably the fastest track tire on market today. But they do not last. I haven't gotten more than 5.0 track days out of any one set. I corded a set in 3.5 track days once. =(. But again, from a pure performance standpoint, RE71R is the best high performance street tire at the moment.

I have Hankook RS-4 on order that I'm trying out. I'm a big Hankook fan so hopefully these will outperform the RS-3.

Regarding MPSS, I chunked MPSS on 1st session of Autoclub Speedway (less than 600 street driven miles), on my track prepped e46 m3. I have -3.7F and -2.5R running JRZ RS Pros on a 3,000 lbs weight (without driver). It chunked on 1st session and tires were toast.

I had broken in the tire enough for the rubber fibers to stretch and stick back together. I don't care what people say. MPSS to me is marketing success but a crappy tire, for the money.

Back to my initial response, the OP seems like a novice that needs a dual purpose tire. Yokohama is all the grip he will ever need with excellent treadwear for such a grippy tire. They are one of the best Extreme summer tires. Just a touch pricey.

Click to expand...

Correct. I would be considered only a novice but with having a dediceted set of wheels for track use I was wanting a tire more track focused. I'll have to check out the Yoko's as I never really considered them.

OKC S550 said:

Correct. I would be considered only a novice but with having a dediceted set of wheels for track use I was wanting a tire more track focused. I'll have to check out the Yoko's as I never really considered them.

Click to expand...

I've definitely eyed them before but as hulk stated, they're pricey. At that point I'd look at Sport Cup 2s also.

Competition Orange said:

Track guys seem to say that NT01s wear like iron. Slightly off pace of a RE71R but with the wear, they're the choice tire of all the track rats I know. Additionally, they perform consistently from new to corded with no measurable dropoff, another plus in their column.

Click to expand...

I have 3 track days on mine and I'm hoping they will make it through two more days next weekend....

NightmareMoon said:

MPSS will chunk if you run them too hard with not enough camber when they're new. After a few thousand miles they may harden up should be less likely to chunk. I think probably the lack of camber is the main factor here. If you have enough of it, they may be fine when new.

Click to expand...

I ran MPSS almost exclusively last year and only had one chunk and that was at the end of it's life and pre-camber plates. Running -2.5 up front I never had another one chunk and they held up really well overall. Performance wise, my best time on NT01's are only a second quicker than the MPSS (granted mpss were a wider, staggered setup).

One caveat, I never went out with new tires up front. They were always 7-8/32 or less.

RE71R really do hold up fine to the heat and abuse of track use and don't get 'greasy'. Guys who are spreading that rumor really should get some personal first hand experience or shut the heck up. My last set which was past the wear bars did loosen up slightly at the end of a long hard track session (20 minutes), but I attribute that to being past the 'good' compound and into the structural stuff on the shoulders. They're nothing like other tires I've driven that got 'greasy' when hot. Maybe they loose a little bit of their edge, but its nothing like some tires get. At my last track day (75 degree temps, 15 minute sessions and some water on track) there was no hint of any lost grip at the end of those sessions.

Please, don't spread rumors if you don't have first-hand experience with a tire.

Click to expand...

I have these on my Miata that I push at the track. While they will fall off a little after 20+ minutes, they do not get what I call greasy. Never do they get unpredictable to point I would call an end to a session. I have seen that on the MPSS and to a lesser extent even the NT01s.