Taking the S550 GT to the race track

spiller · Apr 14, 2017

I apologize in advance as I'm sure this topic has been covered many times on these very forums. It is difficult and very time consuming to search for the info I'm looking for and since I am new to Mustangs, I thought I would try and get all of the info I'm after in the one thread.

A quick background, I am an experienced track day goer and have tracked a number of different vehicles, most recently a Porsche 911 GT3 which was extensively modified for the track. That was was a great car and you could beat on it all day long at the track with zero issues. I am not expecting the Mustang GT to be like that (no offence intended). With this in mind, when I go to the track I like to drive my cars to the limit or very close to it, so I would like to know how I can expect the S550 to perform under these circumstances.

My car is an Aus/Euro spec GT so similar enough to the US spec GT performance pack. I will be fitting the Ford Racing track handling package along with a host of BMR upgrades to reduce wheel hop.

Specific questions:

1) What viscosity engine oil should I use for the Coyote? I understand the Vodoo is spec'd with 5w50. Can this carry over to the Coyote? I don't like the sound of 5w20!

2) Will there be engine and transmission cooling issues?

3) Will the PP brembo brakes require a pad upgrade? I will change the fluid to Castrol SRF but wondering if any other upgrades are required.

Any other issues?

This car will be my daily driver and its been a while since I've double dutied a car but I realize there is always a compromise when you do. I will do 4-5 track days per year which isn't much but when I'm there I will drive hard.

All input appreciated!

MarkH · Apr 14, 2017

spiller said:
I apologize in advance as I'm sure this topic has been covered many times on these very forums. It is difficult and very time consuming to search for the info I'm looking for and since I am new to Mustangs, I thought I would try and get all of the info I'm after in the one thread.

A quick background, I am an experienced track day goer and have tracked a number of different vehicles, most recently a Porsche 911 GT3 which was extensively modified for the track. That was was a great car and you could beat on it all day long at the track with zero issues. I am not expecting the Mustang GT to be like that (no offence intended). With this in mind, when I go to the track I like to drive my cars to the limit or very close to it, so I would like to know how I can expect the S550 to perform under these circumstances.

My car is an Aus/Euro spec GT so similar enough to the US spec GT performance pack. I will be fitting the Ford Racing track handling package along with a host of BMR upgrades to reduce wheel hop.

Specific questions:

1) What viscosity engine oil should I use for the Coyote? I understand the Vodoo is spec'd with 5w50. Can this carry over to the Coyote? I don't like the sound of 5w20!

2) Will there be engine and transmission cooling issues?

3) Will the PP brembo brakes require a pad upgrade? I will change the fluid to Castrol SRF but wondering if any other upgrades are required.

Any other issues?

This car will be my daily driver and its been a while since I've double dutied a car but I realize there is always a compromise when you do. I will do 4-5 track days per year which isn't much but when I'm there I will drive hard.

All input appreciated!

I had mine at Sebring with stock GTPP suspension and had no issues but I'm a novice.

You'll get some great answers here:

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=197

BmacIL · Apr 14, 2017

spiller said:
I apologize in advance as I'm sure this topic has been covered many times on these very forums. It is difficult and very time consuming to search for the info I'm looking for and since I am new to Mustangs, I thought I would try and get all of the info I'm after in the one thread.

A quick background, I am an experienced track day goer and have tracked a number of different vehicles, most recently a Porsche 911 GT3 which was extensively modified for the track. That was was a great car and you could beat on it all day long at the track with zero issues. I am not expecting the Mustang GT to be like that (no offence intended). With this in mind, when I go to the track I like to drive my cars to the limit or very close to it, so I would like to know how I can expect the S550 to perform under these circumstances.

My car is an Aus/Euro spec GT so similar enough to the US spec GT performance pack. I will be fitting the Ford Racing track handling package along with a host of BMR upgrades to reduce wheel hop.

Specific questions:

1) What viscosity engine oil should I use for the Coyote? I understand the Vodoo is spec'd with 5w50. Can this carry over to the Coyote? I don't like the sound of 5w20!

2) Will there be engine and transmission cooling issues?

3) Will the PP brembo brakes require a pad upgrade? I will change the fluid to Castrol SRF but wondering if any other upgrades are required.

Any other issues?

This car will be my daily driver and its been a while since I've double dutied a car but I realize there is always a compromise when you do. I will do 4-5 track days per year which isn't much but when I'm there I will drive hard.

All input appreciated!

1. I would run 5W30 per the advice of knowledgeable people within Ford Performance. Full synthetic, of course.

2. Engine cooling will be no problem. Trans cooling could be, although you won't go into limp mode. Upgraded fluid for the trans and diff from [MENTION=22413]Optimum Performance[/MENTION] would be very worthwhile and will improve shifting quite a bit.

3. Stock brembo pads are pretty solid. That said, if you're an experienced track goer, some R8 or R10 from Carbotech would be a great upgrade that will ensure you have fun all day. It's a pain to switch out and have to clean rotors for though, given that the pads aren't in a family of compounds with stock. I'd try stock first and see how they are for you.

VinnAY · Apr 14, 2017

I think Ive heard some problems with rear end heating and going in to limp mode, there's a thread in the track section.

texasboy21 · Apr 14, 2017

Ive tracked my GT PP 5 times now in its first three months of ownership and the brakes and suspension have been fine.

I would stick with the OEM weight, and simply run a higher quality oil.

spiller · Apr 14, 2017

MarkH said:
I had mine at Sebring with stock GTPP suspension and had no issues but I'm a novice.

You'll get some great answers here:

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=197

Thanks for the link. I had fun reading through that thread, not a heap of tech info in it but good to see these things being thrown around a race track.

BmacIL said:
1. I would run 5W30 per the advice of knowledgeable people within Ford Performance. Full synthetic, of course.

2. Engine cooling will be no problem. Trans cooling could be, although you won't go into limp mode. Upgraded fluid for the trans and diff from [MENTION=22413]Optimum Performance[/MENTION] would be very worthwhile and will improve shifting quite a bit.

3. Stock brembo pads are pretty solid. That said, if you're an experienced track goer, some R8 or R10 from Carbotech would be a great upgrade that will ensure you have fun all day. It's a pain to switch out and have to clean rotors for though, given that the pads aren't in a family of compounds with stock. I'd try stock first and see how they are for you.

Thanks for the info. Any reason why the 5w30 specifically? Previously I've always used a minimum 40 when on track. Good to hear about the stock brakes, my local track kills brake pads so I'll see how it goes but I'd rather not mess around with race compounds for the reasons you stated above. Your comment about the transmission not causing the car to go into limp mode suggests there is no warning and it will ultimately fail? To be honest I'll only be spending 10
minutes on track at any given time so hopefully I won't have any issues.

texasboy21 said:
Ive tracked my GT PP 5 times now in its first three months of ownership and the brakes and suspension have been fine.

I would stick with the OEM weight, and simply run a higher quality oil.

Great to hear, our cars in Aus specify a 5w30 but I was going to dump the factory fill after 1000kms anyway.

VinnAY said:
I think Ive heard some problems with rear end heating and going in to limp mode, there's a thread in the track section.

Thanks, I didn't even realise there was a track section! I'll take a look.

68fbjjz109 · Apr 14, 2017

spiller said:
Your comment about the transmission not causing the car to go into limp mode suggests there is no warning and it will ultimately fail? To be honest I'll only be spending 10
minutes on track at any given time so hopefully I won't have any issues.

That's pretty short. You should be fine. I was told from a friend who used to work at Ford that if you have a 15' with no additional dif or trans cooling, that you should slow down after approximately 20-25 minutes of all out driving.

He caveated that it really isn't the dif, it's to safeguard polymer trans components.

spiller · Apr 14, 2017

68fbjjz109 said:
That's pretty short. You should be fine. I was told from a friend who used to work at Ford that if you have a 15' with no additional dif or trans cooling, that you should slow down after approximately 20-25 minutes of all out driving.

He caveated that it really isn't the dif, it's to safeguard polymer trans components.

Mine is a late 2016 build. What are the additional diff and trans cooling upgrades on the 2016? Either way that's nice to know. I rarely do 20 minute plus sessions given the format of the events I compete in.

BmacIL · Apr 15, 2017

spiller said:
Mine is a late 2016 build. What are the additional diff and trans cooling upgrades on the 2016? Either way that's nice to know. I rarely do 20 minute plus sessions given the format of the events I compete in.

All 2016's have a sensor for the diff temp, but no cooling upgrades.

To your question on the weight, this is based on the bearing clearances and what hot weight will still have adequate flow. In general you want the lowest you can get away with in order to maximize flow (not pressure, pressure is an indication that there's flow where it needs to be, but pressure is resistance to flow...you can get to a point where you're killing your lubrication and not allowing for a proper film thickness at bearings because it's too viscous and won't flow). If you don't see oil temps over ~240 you have nothing to worry about with 5W30 as it won't shear down enough to cause problems. If you start seeing 260-270 or more, then you may need to go to a 0W40 or 5W40. The engine does have an oil cooler.

At 10 min intervals you should be good to go on all systems as the car comes.

spiller · Apr 15, 2017

BmacIL said:
All 2016's have a sensor for the diff temp, but no cooling upgrades.

To your question on the weight, this is based on the bearing clearances and what hot weight will still have adequate flow. In general you want the lowest you can get away with in order to maximize flow (not pressure, pressure is an indication that there's flow where it needs to be, but pressure is resistance to flow...you can get to a point where you're killing your lubrication and not allowing for a proper film thickness at bearings because it's too viscous and won't flow). If you don't see oil temps over ~240 you have nothing to worry about with 5W30 as it won't shear down enough to cause problems. If you start seeing 260-270 or more, then you may need to go to a 0W40 or 5W40. The engine does have an oil cooler.

At 10 min intervals you should be good to go on all systems as the car comes.

Awesome, I am a bit of a numbers person so that info will be invaluable to my peace of mind at the track. Thank you! Can't wait to get this car on the track, somewhere in the two weeks between buying the car and waiting for it to arrive I have gone from thinking I wouldn't track it at all to deciding to make it my track day car for the next few years. I'm pleasantly surprised to learn it's quite capable of surviving ongoing track use.

Grintch · Apr 15, 2017

If you are an experienced and/or aggressive driver, you will need more camber. Especially up front.

I just did my first track day in the car.
FR Track suspension & MPSS in 275/35R19 & 295/35R19.
Brakes held up great (I did put in fresh, high performance fluid before the event).
Suspension worked well (and I felt no need for any "stop the hop" mods).

But I blistered the RF tire after 6 20 minute sessions. This is with no tire rotating, as a mix up meant I didn't have my wheel lock tool.
So I just picked up some camber plates, and some jacking rails to making tire rotation and swaps easier.

And have a new set of square wheels & tires on order to take a bit of understeer out and allow me the extend tire life by rotating the tires more.

I will keep an eye on the aftermarket or Ford for trans/diff cooling solutions (I have a 2015, so no temp sensor or warnings).

I am not sure what was more fun, blowing by my autocross arch enemies, Miata's or passing the Z28 & Z06's.

Rookies, feel confident in running the car stock. But keep on eye on your tires, and be prepared to rotate them.

spiller · Apr 15, 2017

Grintch said:
If you are an experienced and/or aggressive driver, you will need more camber. Especially up front.

I just did my first track day in the car.
FR Track suspension & MPSS in 275/35R19 & 295/35R19.
Brakes held up great (I did put in fresh, high performance fluid before the event).
Suspension worked well (and I felt no need for any "stop the hop" mods).

But I blistered the RF tire after 6 20 minute sessions. This is with no tire rotating, as a mix up meant I didn't have my wheel lock tool.
So I just picked up some camber plates, and some jacking rails to making tire rotation and swaps easier.

And have a new set of square wheels & tires on order to take a bit of understeer out and allow me the extend tire life by rotating the tires more.

I will keep an eye on the aftermarket or Ford for trans/diff cooling solutions (I have a 2015, so no temp sensor or warnings).

I am not sure what was more fun, blowing by my autocross arch enemies, Miata's or passing the Z28 & Z06's.

Rookies, feel confident in running the car stock. But keep on eye on your tires, and be prepared to rotate them.

Great feedback. How did the car feel on the FR track suspension? I had assumed that the stop the hop stuff would still be needed and might still do it as a matter of stiffening up the rear but good to know nonetheless. Any idea how much camber you were running? Where did the front tire bubble, on the sidewall? My experience with MPSS on the track is that they don't like lower hot pressures. I have accepted that I will need dedicated track wheels and tyres to avoid ruining my street tyres (Nitto NT01 275/40/18 will be my best bet). Was going to shoot for around -2.5 in the front and -1.8 in the rear. Camber bolts should allow this. Not really enough for r-compound but it's my daily driver so I have to compromise somewhere.

sigintel · Apr 16, 2017

If you see CHT above 230, try removing the rear engine bay cowl plastic and weather strip on underside of hoid. You will remove wiper arms to do this. Should drop your CHT by at least 15 or maybe 25 depending on your thermostat. With a Reische 170 it dropped mine by 35.
I road course a Whipple at 650rwhp with CHT 185-195 running 10/10. 5w-30 track, 5w-20 street. Have tested both stock and aftermarket OPG.
5w-20 track if cool day and 185 CHT. 5w-30 210-230. 5w-50 230+ w GT350 pump and pan.
On FORCED INDUCTION AT NEARLY Double rated power: Broken oil pumps have been reported in first 20 minutes from cold start if going WOT on cold oil. If you run higher than 5w-20 make sure CHT is 180+ for at least 5 min before WOT if running FI. Actual oil temp lags CHT by several minutes. I would not daily drive on 5w-50 as would take too long for my short trips to ever be able to safely go WOT especially on stock pump gears w FI.
Currently TSS OPG, GT350 pump/pan.

spiller · Apr 16, 2017

sigintel said:
If you see CHT above 230, try removing the rear engine bay cowl plastic and weather strip on underside of hoid. You will remove wiper arms to do this. Should drop your CHT by at least 15 or maybe 25 depending on your thermostat. With a Reische 170 it dropped mine by 35.
I road course a Whipple at 650rwhp with CHT 185-195 running 10/10. 5w-30 track, 5w-20 street. Have tested both stock and aftermarket OPG.
5w-20 track if cool day and 185 CHT. 5w-30 210-230. 5w-50 230+ w GT350 pump and pan.
Broken oil pumps have been reported in first 20 minutes from cold start if going WOT on cold oil. If you run higher than 5w-20 make sure CHT is 180+ for at least 5 min before WOT. Actual oil temp lags CHT by several minutes. I would not daily drive on 5w-50 as would take too long for my short trips to ever be able to safely go WOT especially on stock pump gears.

Thanks for the info. I haven't yet taken delivery of my car but are you saying it only gives CHT reading and not actual oil temp? I would assume CHT is the higher reading under normal conditions?

Ford specifies a 5w30 for us in Australia as we don't get frosty winters like you folk in NA.

hiccup · Apr 16, 2017

Can't imagine why Ford would really chance a poor quality oil pump component knowing that these Gt's could possibly see severe duty during daily driving, cruises, trips, road courses etc. I would hope that they are replacing motors or the components damaged by such failures...

Taking the S550 GT to the race track

spiller

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MarkH

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BmacIL

Enginerd

VinnAY

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texasboy21

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spiller

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68fbjjz109

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spiller

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BmacIL

Enginerd

spiller

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Grintch

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spiller

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sigintel

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spiller

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hiccup

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