Upgrade Base GT Pads and lines or Buy 6 Piston

So I have a base gt due to cost factor and my local dealership didnt have any PP in stock when I purchased mine. But I do plan to HPDE and autox this car alot this year. Would you guys recommend just buying the $1300 kit from American muscle or upgrading what I currently have. I like the 4 pistons since I can run a wider selection of 18 inch wheels and run cheaper tires, however I'm wondering if the base brakes will fade after awhile and boil. Thoughts?

There are many ways to skin a cat and you will get a wide range of opinions here.

This would depend greatly on your level of experience, driving style, the tracks you run on and the tires you're running.

For me $1300 is a lot of money and it does not address some of the underlying issues. You still need to upgrade the pads and get some sort of cold air ducting to the brakes. Do this with the standard 4 pots and this will cover 95% of the track drivers out there.

I have the standard GT brakes on my Ecoboost and have only had a fading problem once, it was a very fast track and later analysis proved that the stock pads were well past 80% used. This spring I will upgrade to a slotted disc, a more track oriented pad and a high temp fluid. I'm also running Pilot Super Sports as most of my time is spent DD. I have to get a lot better and a lot faster to justify going to the 6 pots.

I'm jist running in hpde 2 so I'm still sorta fresh ide say. I'll stick with the 4 pots then for the time being.

Stick with the 4 pots and buy track pads and a brake cooling kit. If you decide that the 6 pots are better, you'll still be able to use the cooling kit.

Plimmer said:

Stick with the 4 pots and buy track pads and a brake cooling kit. If you decide that the 6 pots are better, you'll still be able to use the cooling kit.

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This. JLT sells one that you take the fog lamps out for.

I have the EB and upgraded to the 4 pots...added stainless steel brake lines and better fluid ....I am newbie so was more than enough. That said the 4 pots are tons better than standard EB.

I would stick with the 4 pistons and get some good pads, lines and fluid. Those will perform better than the Brembos on stock hardware. Plus it really depends on your tires too...if you're using street tires no need to go big on the brakes as you're most likely going to overpower them. Once you get into some serious driving with R compound tires it's probably a good idea to go with the Brembos and matching hardware.

Get good pads. Skip the line upgrade. Save money for brake system upgrade later.

Fluid, pads, ducts
I did some failure mode testing on OEM stock base GT brakes using MSR Houston and a Whippled 15 GT.

If you are running anywhere above novice group, OEM pads can be overheated fairly easily and you will get about a 30% loss of friction at the first over temp limit. Friction fade doubles in severity fairly quickly after that in a cascade if you keep pushing.
Take a hot frying pan and try pushing an ice cube around on it and youll see the vapor layer floats the ice cube like a puck on an air hockey table even if you push down somewhat. Harder you push the more vapor you get. Pads will do same thing.

Bottom line, you could get a small noticeable warning with a little reserve, but you should not be braking deep and late on any long straights with stock brake system on base GT.

Testing showed initial transfer of pad material onto rotors. Pads were ruined.
Fluid was SRF as focus was on finding pad/rotor thermal limits.
Temperatures shot (non contact IR) AFTER cool down lap immediately after track exit:
Rotors 420C
Calipers 246C !

Just for curiosity the Ford Stock DOT 4 LV (265/160 Dry/wet BP) was tested and failed easily on third stop (145 to 5). It had been in the car for 18 months (since built).

If you track your car you don't want the 4 pot brakes.

The GTPP setup is excellent

Stick with the 4 pot brakes, they are more than capable on the track with a pad change. Plus you end up with a lot more wheel choices. We race NASA tt series so we absolutely beat the car, 4 pot with most aggressive gloc pads they have listed. Won't be changing the brake setup besides 2 piece rotors this year. We don't run ducting with factory rotors.

xXANCHORMONXx said:

If you track your car you don't want the 4 pot brakes.
The GTPP setup is excellent

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AGREE!

402 said:

Stick with the 4 pot brakes, they are more than capable on the track with a pad change. Plus you end up with a lot more wheel choices. We race NASA tt series so we absolutely beat the car, 4 pot with most aggressive gloc pads they have listed. Won't be changing the brake setup besides 2 piece rotors this year. We don't run ducting with factory rotors.

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Also AGREE!

You dont "want" 4 pots, but can you track the car safely understanding their limits while you are just learning? Maybe.

The cost of 6 pots is 1200/2000 (self install/shop) plus track pads (+300), SRF Fluid (+140), etc.

The grey area here is not what the brakes can do, its what the owner/driver can be responsible for. :shrug: If you have the patience and wrenching skills, then MAYBE you can safely get some track time in on the 4 pots.
(Again xXANCHORMONXx is wise in his response.)

Having tested stock 4 pots to the stock pad limits, I believe you can safely track them under strick adherence as follows:
1. You must absolutely bleed thru the fluid with a minimum 500F dry/360F wet DOT4 compatible fluid. GULF RF800, RF1000, or Motul RBF600, RBF660 and bleed before every track day at least a half litter total. I use SRF and bleed thru slightly less. Just depends on how much you like wrenching.
https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-fluid-comparison-chart.cfm
Moisture content can reach 50% saturation in a couple months in hot humid environments.
http://s01.static-shell.com/content/dam/shell/static/chemicals/downloads/products-services/shell-brake-clutchfluidsbrochure.pdf

2. Brakes MUST be ducted depending on road course and top speeds:
Back to back heavy braking or long straights like MSR Houston, COTA, etc.
Driveway Austin low speed course you might run without ducts in <15min sessions. Autocross will probably be fine without.

3. Pads must be GLOC R8,10,12,16,18. Must be 650C capable
http://www.g-locbrakes.com/products/brake-compounds/

4. TIRES! More grip means more heat to dissipate in shorter time and thus higher peak temps. Understand high grip setups (which make no sense to run while learning because they only increase speed and damage when (not if) you make a mistake). Ask 402 about his TT setup and how much time the brakes spend at the limit continuously during TT.
If you are going to step up to RE-71R or NT-01, use stock size wheels. If you have 10-11 wide aftermarket wheels, aim for >=200 treadware tires.
315 NT01 on 11 wide front wheels and brake deep into COTA turn 1 for 25 minutes would likely be a nasty test on the calipers.


Now you see the wisdom of xXANCHORMONXx response.

Thus, IF you are just learning on stock tires, stock wheels, and change the fluid, pads, and add ducts, you can safely get some track learning in on the 4 pots. Depending on how you progress, within 2-4 weekends, you may wish to push your braking deeper and harder on wider, stickier tires...

Ive only ran 3 HPDE events and currently run in HPDE 2 now sooo I still consider myself a novice but sorta not? Idk also I usually run my corvette and have never had any brake fade issues.

Tracks Ill be running this year are

Summit Point Main, Summit Point Shenandoah, Dominion Raceway and VIR

So based off of those tracks and Ill be running Toyo Proxes R888 tires and the Steeda adjustable shocks and dual rate springs. Stock car otherwise.

Thing is I can pay for 3 damn HPDE events and run my 4 pots with pads and a ducting system for the same price as a 6 piston set up. I figure if I get moved up to HPDE 3 maybe Ill invest in 6 pots next year. Based off of that information what do you guys think?

Try an R12 Front pad with the R10 rear and see how it holds up for you. Brake cooling is a good idea. Flush the fluid with OEM before the event.

BRAKING

I am in exactly the same situation- just starting HPDE in a base 2015 GT. My instructor recommended his brake specialist www.zeckhausen.com to inquire about upgrading pads for continuing HDPE in my daily driver. I talked with CJ Pony Parts in my local area and Zeckhausen by email. With no disrespect to CJ Pony Parts at all, the email reply I got from zeckhausen was excellent and thorough. I'd be glad to copy & paste the content of their reply if you wish, but I didn't want to flood the board with too much content since I'm such a newbie myself. He had to research to find pads for a non-PP, but he recommended these Porterfield R4-S.
https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=11_90_6439_6441&products_id=21196
https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=21198
I just had them installed yesterday, and I'll be tracking them in mid April at Lime Rock Park. For whatever it's worth, my first HPDE experience was a Pocono raceway with the stock pads and everything held up fine for the entire day, including withstanding the heavy braking from the NASCAR backstretch to the infield road course.