A Peek Inside The 2018 Mustang’s Gen 3 Coyote Engine

gixxersixxerman said:

You are right no one knows, but plenty of other engines are out there that use this tech, in my case we take the duty cycle of the direct injectors to about 85-90% then fill fueling needs with the port injectors. 260 intank pump and 750cc injectors will get you to 500whp on our cars, and 1000cc over 850whp. All on e85 of course. 850whp FRS is scary fast.

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I want a 850 whp frs

Gen1 to Gen3...wow. 48 horse and 30 lb/ft is nice!

jasonstang said:

We will see how the FI people respond with the whole DI/PI setup and high compression.
Maybe the new engine is not that great to go FI. That 12:1 compression ratio will definitely limit how much max pressure the engine can take.

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There's been plenty of FI'ed GT350's running around now. They're fine. OPG, like everything else, should be the real focal point for fortification.

sigintel said:

Something is wrong with the 460 rating.
(5.0/5.2) x 526hp = 505hp

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Horsepower doesn't work that way. Not a single bit. To skip a ton of BS that I've explained many times in the past I'll leave with this:

Power = work done over time and work is done by a force acting upon an object (crank shaft). In this case, represented by "torque."

The GT350's peak power is being generated at 7500 RPM and the computer says no more at 8250. It sustains itself usually within about 10 horsepower from peak power to redline.

The Coyote's peak power is being generated at 6800 RPM and shuts down around 7000RPM. The new Coyote revs out to 7500. Based on Coyote architecture in the past, I'm going to guess that peak happens around 7000 - 7200 PRM.

Power isn't just about a flat number. It's where that number is being produced in the rev range.

There's been plenty of FI'ed GT350's running around now. They're fine. OPG, like everything else, should be the real focal point for fortification.

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While that may be true, you have to remember that the bottom end of those is significantly stronger being true forged steel and aluminum.

I can't imagine a run of the mill GT getting more than the current hypereutectic pistons, and when you combine 12.1 compression and boost on top of those it's gonna be rough. I forsee alot of shattered pistons and ringlands from people trying to throw 10psi or more on that kind of compression. A cool intake charge (from the DI) can only do so much, however regardless of how cool the intake charge is you can't get away from the amounts of cylinder pressure when combining boost and high compression.

nastang87xx said:

There's been plenty of FI'ed GT350's running around now. They're fine. OPG, like everything else, should be the real focal point for fortification.

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Except slapping a blower on a voodoo is sacrilege and the Gods of NA motors are angry.

EFI said:

While that may be true, you have to remember that the bottom end of those is significantly stronger being true forged steel and aluminum.

I can't imagine a run of the mill GT getting more than the current hypereutectic pistons, and when you combine 12.1 compression and boost on top of those it's gonna be rough. I forsee alot of shattered pistons and ringlands from people trying to throw 10psi or more on that kind of compression. A cool intake charge (from the DI) can only do so much, however regardless of how cool the intake charge is you can't get away from the amounts of cylinder pressure when combining boost and high compression.

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Mitchell Popes running 17psi and over 1000+ on stock GT350 w TG OPG.
Get that 10psi negativity outta here.

nastang87xx said:

There's been plenty of FI'ed GT350's running around now. They're fine. OPG, like everything else, should be the real focal point for fortification.

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Yeah, but how many of them are running pump gas let alone 91 octane that some states are limited to. Reading on here it sounds like the 11:1 CR coyote barely works with 91 octane if you are willing to live with the knock sensors going wild. I would think 12:1 is going to be limited to something like 5 psi boost if it's run on pump gas and the knock sensors probably still won't be very happy.

Is the 3rd gen still able to run on 87 octane? I'm guessing yes.

12.0:1 is getting up there.

Mazda has their 2014+ skyactive 2.5L 4-cylinder at 13.0, runs on 87 octane (14.0:1 in European markets with higher octane standards).....

So we might see the compresdion ratio go up again in the future?

Big oil and auto manufacturers are currently in talks to come up with higher octane fuel standards to allow for the efficiency benefits of even higher compression ratios.

Hey M6G...


According to the cutaway of the Gen3 Coyote, the Direct Injectors will come in conflict with a Root-type Supercharger. Intake design for superchargers are of a low rise design and, intercoolers in modern Root SC's house the heat exchanger brick there as well.


Here is a pic of the cut-away:

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.ne...=bbcad4390139b9005cfff53ff824bf84&oe=5A2AA4CA


If it were only Direct Injected, the D injectors are placed where the Port injectors were positioned (see LT4). The D injectors on the Gen 3 Coyote do in fact rest in the V, making a root type supercharger hard to design for.


The complexity of dual fuel injection systems seems to eliminate some of those options.

Draklia said:

Yeah, but how many of them are running pump gas let alone 91 octane that some states are limited to. Reading on here it sounds like the 11:1 CR coyote barely works with 91 octane if you are willing to live with the knock sensors going wild. I would think 12:1 is going to be limited to something like 5 psi boost if it's run on pump gas and the knock sensors probably still won't be very happy.

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This isn't 1990 anymore. [MENTION=10789]Travis@boostworks[/MENTION] did a TT GT350R car recently that ran on 91 and ripped out 700 RWHP on 6.5lbs of boost. Conservative tune.

EDIT: also while this isn't quite apples to apples but, there are GTR's out in Cali on 91 that run 11:1 pistons and nearly a whole extra 1/2 bar of pressure all day long with nothing to sweat.

Boost levels and compression ratios aren't the only part of the detonation equation. Sometimes you just pull back timing and then all of a sudden you can add another couple of pounds. It all depends.

3 pages and no one has mentioned that absolutely hideous engine cover

chopsui said:

3 pages and no one has mentioned that absolutely hideous engine cover

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Holy smokes! Yeah, hopefully that's something that can be removed and/or modified ...

nastang87xx said:

This isn't 1990 anymore. @Travis@boostworks did a TT GT350R car recently that ran on 91 and ripped out 700 RWHP on 6.5lbs of boost. Conservative tune.

EDIT: also while this isn't quite apples to apples but, there are GTR's out in Cali on 91 that run 11:1 pistons and nearly a whole extra 1/2 bar of pressure all day long with nothing to sweat.

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I think a lot of people are stuck with the traditional PFI mindset. With the right tuning, DI is a fantastic piece of tech. In the PFI days, you needed lower compression for boost, as detonation was a common factor. On top of that, you needed the strongest internals to handle any detonation events. With DI, you get improved atomization, better mixture, and precision injection control to take most of the detonation out of the picture. The result is the ability to increase compression and lean out the mixture. I am in diesel development. We have been doing direct injection for decades. I am very happy to see the gasoline world move in this direction. I think once people get more experience with the technology, they will never want to go back to PFI.