Suspension newbie trying to stabilize car

Stuntman said:

The base suspension makes the Mustang outperform a E90 M3 on track do it must be crap.

There's a big difference from the Nero and the Nero All-season, which greatly benefits from higher pressures.. Same for Dave's crappy Turanza All-Seasons.

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Uh what? Are you saying that you went faster than an E90 M3 at a track day, therefore the base, non-PP Mustang GT is better handling/faster than the M3?

BmacIL said:

Uh what? Are you saying that you went faster than an E90 M3 at a track day, therefore the base, non-PP Mustang GT is better handling/faster than the M3?

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Not me, but I went faster than a Ferrari in my Miata, so the Miata is a superior car.

Check out this comparison, base GT vs modified M3 on the same tires (has some pretty cool and insightful data overlays):

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/4448/Project-E90-M3-Head-to-Head-with-2016-Mustang-GT.aspx


..yes the base GT suspension is complete crap and you NEED coilovers, lockout bushings, etc... to make an S550 handle well :headbonk:

Stuntman said:

Not me, but I went faster than a Ferrari in my Miata, so the Miata is a superior car.

Check out this comparison, base GT vs modified M3 on the same tires (has some pretty cool and insightful data overlays):

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/4448/Project-E90-M3-Head-to-Head-with-2016-Mustang-GT.aspx


..yes the base GT suspension is complete crap and you NEED coilovers, lockout bushings, etc... to make an S550 handle well :headbonk:

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I find that very interesting. Around an autocross the base suspension is definitely lacking in control and stiffness. They mention that in the article a few times, as well. Autocross exaggerates this more than a road course.

Handling well is also not necessarily lap times. A car can be grippy while being sloppy and boaty.

Autocross is a completely different animal from road courses and often cars have really weird setups that would never work on a track or backroad.

I'm personally not an autocrosser but I would agree with the low speed cone-dodging and fast transitions exaggerates the stock suspension's lack of damping that isn't as big of an issue on track.

I think that comparison dived into the damping and handling of the stock GTs suspension. I agree that "handling" isn't solely lap time but you still need good handling and body control to turn fast laps, and to be faster than an M3 is still impressive.

For Autocross, a Mustang probably isn't the best tool to begin with, and I'd imagine it would need a lot of mods to rotate and turn on a low speed course where a Miata or Elise would be better suited for.

Stuntman said:

Autocross is a completely different animal from road courses and often cars have really weird setups that would never work on a track or backroad.

I'm personally not an autocrosser but I would agree with the low speed cone-dodging and fast transitions exaggerates the stock suspension's lack of damping that isn't as big of an issue on track.

I think that comparison dived into the damping and handling of the stock GTs suspension. I agree that "handling" isn't solely lap time but you still need good handling and body control to turn fast laps, and to be faster than an M3 is still impressive.

For Autocross, a Mustang probably isn't the best tool to begin with, and I'd imagine it would need a lot of mods to rotate and turn on a low speed course where a Miata or Elise would be better suited for.

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Yes it's definitely far more at home on a road course. It does pretty well if you throw a lot of tire and front camber at it, though.

I don't think air pressure is the issue. If anything, it'll mask it slightly.

I do agree that dampers would greatly help, but still not the root of the problem imo.

I took video today to show that the steering is loose even when parked on even pavement. While I don't expect it to stay static, I remember there wasn't that much wiggle room when I first got the car. This was only applying slight pressure, when I stop on each side its the point where the tires would actually start turning, if that makes sense. I did notice that pulling to the right is slightly looser than pulling left. Or maybe this is me being paranoid and totally normal

fsvec said:

I don't think air pressure is the issue. If anything, it'll mask it slightly.

I do agree that dampers would greatly help, but still not the root of the problem imo.

I took video today to show that the steering is loose even when parked on even pavement. While I don't expect it to stay static, I remember there wasn't that much wiggle room when I first got the car. This was only applying slight pressure, when I stop on each side its the point where the tires would actually start turning, if that makes sense. I did notice that pulling to the right is slightly looser than pulling left. Or maybe this is me being paranoid and totally normal

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I don't see anything out of the ordinary...

Parked evaluation of the EPAS is not going to get your great results. It overboosts at very low/zero speed so that you can actually turn the wheel. Unless that is actually mechanical slop, I don't see an issue.

BmacIL said:

I don't see anything out of the ordinary...

Parked evaluation of the EPAS is not going to get your great results. It overboosts at very low/zero speed so that you can actually turn the wheel. Unless that is actually mechanical slop, I don't see an issue.

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Maybe stationary it's normal. Now imagine that but while driving. The lack of security knowing where the wheels are and easy turning

Looks fine. Try the higher tire pressure and report back what that does.

40 psi helps a little bit, but underlying feeling is still there

fsvec said:

40 psi helps a little bit, but underlying feeling is still there

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I'd put $ the majority of the problem is the tires. When are you getting the 500s?

Are any of your wheel hubs loose? (Jack up the car, grab the backside of each wheel and try to shake them. See if any move.)

What is your alignment set at? (in particular, front and rear toe).

I had loose hubs on both rear wheels and my alignment was all jacked up. The car was, of course, all squirrely and not confidence inspiring at all, even in a straight line. Definitely check both of those items.

[ame]

Stuntman said:

I'd put $ the majority of the problem is the tires. When are you getting the 500s?

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Was planning on getting them probably early next year, these still have a good amount of life left. Guess this would be a good time to switch though

NightmareMoon said:

Are any of your wheel hubs loose? (Jack up the car, grab the backside of each wheel and try to shake them. See if any move.)

What is your alignment set at? (in particular, front and rear toe).

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I'll be checking for mechanical failure when I install some parts this weekend. Could the wheel hubs have failed already? Car only has 36k miles
Anything else to look out for? I'll wiggle the wheels, safe to assume that anything that shakes or wiggles along is faulty? (control arms, etc)

Tires are the most important part of your car. It doesn't matter if you have a $1M McLaren or Ferrari if you are driving on all-season tires, the car will handle, drive, and perform like crap.

Tires are the most important safety and performance device, whether you're on the street, strip, or track, select a tire best suited for your needs. It sounds like for your needs the 500 will be a great choice. I caution you spending $ on so many parts when i'm pretty confident your issue is your tires. You could spend a lot and realize the underlying problem (I think your all-seasons) is still there.

I'd change the tires out before buying anything for the chassis and suspension. Once you feel how the Mustang is suppose to handle and perform with a quality tire, then look at the deficiencies that you want to improve.

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