Ford Racing ProCal Tune

Juben · Oct 13, 2017

tw557 said:
I'm sure a turbo is sensative to intake restriction but the question is, are our intakes restrictive with a stock tune? If you simply hook up a tuner and tell the Turbo I now want 25lbs of boost and it can hold that boost then I would think the intake is not restrictive with the stock tune. Believe me I so hoped that bolt ons would add power to our cars since I can't justify the CPO warranty going in the wind. My car was bought used CPO with a downpipe, full cat back exhaust, and MAP intake and intercooler. Ford confirmed to me it was a ford factory tune though. I have since replaced all those parts back to stock other then the intercooler. With a few 1/4 mile runs and many 0-60 runs. I see zero performance difference. Personally it seems a a little faster and certainly smoother stock.

The stock intake is good until you start getting into the higher horsepower levels.

Miami EB · Oct 13, 2017

TheLion said:
Try the intake then make your comments against it. There's a reason Tune+ recommended spending $150 on the just the intake tube from AirAid.

There are other advantages to the air box and after market filter. While the filter is capable of flowing much more air than the stock turbo / engine can consume, it's dust capacity is significantly higher. You'll be in the optimal flow range for a markedly longer period of time before needing to clean the filter due to restrictions.

The stock air box does just fine in terms of keeping hot air out. No argument there. However just like electron flow, you get a skin effect, where the drag against the walls of the intake tubing inhibit flow, air density is typically greater on the outer edges.

The GT intake tube is huge compared to the ecoboost intake tube even though the air box is the same. In fact it's about the same size as the AirAid intake tube.

Larger diameter tubes simply have more total surface area around their circumference, so if your flowing the same amount of air, it's less restrictive given the same level of vacuum is applied. In our case, because the engine is a feedback system, lowering the restriction on the intake lowers turbine back pressure = more power.

I am by no means suggesting one must do any of these mods, however they work surprisingly well together. For the price, it's not a bad investment. Especially since with the GT350 CAI, you need to invest another $75 just to get a reusable filter unless you want to pay $20 and special order a GT350 paper filter every couple months.

Simply put, all of the intake system modifications reduce restrictions. Not sure why it's so hard to believe it was intentionally restrictive, that's like saying the stock tune is plenty power full when we know the engine can safely push quite a bit more power.

The car feels very lazy bone stock and produces very inconsistent performance, you can fix the lazy response and inconsistency with a combination of inter cooler and intake. The Ford P. tune is the power adder, but you can't maximize power without proper flow. Yes, your going to be flowing significantly more air as the Ford tune will push up to 25 PSI boost. I typically see around 21 to 23 PSI across the RPM band. Stock it was 18. That's a 22% increase in volume (and hence flow) on an intake system that already chokes out a factory tuned car. It's all about selling GT's man. That's the big money maker, while they certainly are profiting from the ecoboost, the magins are smaller than on the GT.

A GT still has a place, but there would be a significant drop in GT sales if ecoboost mustangs came from the factory Ford P. tuned with a good inter cooler and less restrictive intake system pushing 360 crank HP and 400 crank torque like mine. Heck, why do you think they don't even offer an ecoboost with a Torsen diff from the factory? PP Ecoboosts don't have a torsen, just the standard line lock. They also don't offer a 3.73 gearing either. That's what Ford P. ran in their test car when they were developing their race gas tune.

Yall can do what ever you want, but I can tell you after putting 32k miles on the car since June of 2016, I am very familiar with how the car responds. I don't know if it's making any more PEAK power. I never suggested that, it may now. What I said is that part throttle response is drastically improved as well as the fade at the top end. The fade is less severe than it used to be. Yes you can tell by the seat of your pants when the gains are around 10 to 15 hp or greater. Gains smaller than that are too hard to discern "seat of the pants".

Thanks for all the info! Which filter is a good replacement for the GT350 filter? I just installed mine this morning but I want to know what to order to have ready for when it needs to be swapped. The GT350 filter barely fits in there as it is. Thanks!

Rick B · Oct 15, 2017

Yes. I understang about the fuel trim. But that resets rather quickly. I believe that your not to taking account the adaptive learning process. Resetting the KAM and driving it "briskly" eliminates the gradual learning process.

TheLion · Oct 16, 2017

tw557 said:
I'm sure a turbo is sensative to intake restriction but the question is, are our intakes restrictive with a stock tune? If you simply hook up a tuner and tell the Turbo I now want 25lbs of boost and it can hold that boost then I would think the intake is not restrictive with the stock tune. Believe me I so hoped that bolt ons would add power to our cars since I can't justify the CPO warranty going in the wind. My car was bought used CPO with a downpipe, full cat back exhaust, and MAP intake and intercooler. Ford confirmed to me it was a ford factory tune though. I have since replaced all those parts back to stock other then the intercooler. With a few 1/4 mile runs and many 0-60 runs. I see zero performance difference. Personally it seems a a little faster and certainly smoother stock.

I'm not suggesting any intake is optimal. The MAP intake is nothing like the AirAid or other similar closed box types. It's a fender well CAI and those are only intended for pure race applications at higher constant speeds, in particular track applications. There's no ram air effect as there's no air box. My AirAid is hooked up the stock intake ducting, but with the Velossatek ram air duct and modified GT grille, under speed it will add a couple pounds of pressure in the air box, at lower speeds it allows cool air from outside engine bay to be drawn in, also there are aspiration ports in case you need a bit better flow. It's a very well optimized flow system.

Even for drag racing fender well CAI's are not optimal. Your going to be sucking hot air off the line which reduces turbo compressor efficiency and loads the inter cooler more.

Tune+ did some testing with fender well CAI's and found usually you actually loose power, not every intake is the same and some may actually hurt performance, especially in the wrong applications. The MAP intake tube is quite different in shape, diameter, taper and length than the AirAid as well.

An aftermarket down pipe with the Ford Tune? That makes no sense, what were they thinking :doh:. The Ford tune is designed for the stock down pipe and back pressure. Changing that could certainly have unintended consequences.

Regarding warranty and inter coolers and intakes, as far as Ford P. is concerned, cooling system upgrades are not an issue. Changing the down pipe, waste gate, turbo etc. would be however. Cat back exhausts are fine as well, especially if you use Ford P's own offerings, however most of their benefits are limited with weight savings and sound, not so much power, maybe a couple ponies at most due to loosing the "brief case".

MAYBE, just maybe I might get the car up on the dyno one last time after Dave ships me the recirc fitting for the turbo side charge pipe. At least I would be able to see if there are any measurable differences from the combination of intake, plugs and charge pipes changes since the last time. Same car, same dyno, same inter cooler and same tune, SAE corrected results should give us a pretty fair comparison. But I'm pretty much done with the car as is, in fact I'm going to stick with the Ford tune and save the Livernois for when I do a built bottom end once I reach 150k miles and I've gotten my daily use out of the stock block...or maybe I'll just go with the new 460 HP 5.0 and 10 spd auto or even better, the Aluminator 5.2L Voodoo, 580 HP on that beautiful flat plane crank V8

. That would be an awesome project car engine, already got the chassis and drive train.

tw557 · Oct 16, 2017

If you would get some dyno results some time it would be interesting to see if any improvements. It's always fun to theorize the expected gains from changes but actual data results tell the story. The only thing is dyno results for me just dont tell the whole story for roadracing or more importantly street driving such as roll on and part throttle results.
I don't even have the Ford Racing tune. I have a completely stock car other then a MAP intercooler. My car believe it or not came CPO with CAI, catted downpipe and full exhaust. I'm sure it was tuned at one point. The dealer confirmed they changed a coil and reflashed the car at that time a week before I bought it. I then proceeded to put the car back to stock and it seem to run better every step I took which I'm sure was being stock tune. I planned on getting the FRPP tune and even have an email stating that if he motor blows at 80000 miles my CPO warrenty would still be intact from my dealer, but with this intercooler, I am actually pretty happy with the low/mid range torque. It still impresses me withthe roll on power.
I planned on trading for a GT this past summer. I sold my motorcycles and the money from selling these performance Ecoboost parts I was pretty close to the gap of the price of a GT. I have a premium and to get into a premium GT was at least 10-12 grand more. I figured oh well, once the test drive is over I won't care to spend the extra. With spending this much over the Eco I wanted to keep the GT stock to keep the warranty since the replacement cost of a coyote is PLENTY! Then I was shocked. I ended up driving 5 different gt's. Stick and automatic. I wanted to stick with an Automatic. I really was disappointed with the low end daily driving power. My last couple cars were turbo's and think I've grown to like that roll on power of forced induction. Sure it was fun Reving from 4000 to red line, but not something that is easy to do in my driving area. I always get my butt handed to me when I make these comments and I'm told to just push the pedal to the floor and rev it to the moon,but thats just not what I like to do daily. So I went and bought a pretty heavily Modded 05 GT for less then the cost to trade up the the GT. This is the beat on it car and feel as strong at the new stock GT. But my future plan is to get a 15 on GT in a few years and I would love the supercharger. Time will tell. Of like you mention, implant one in the ecoboost!

TheLion · Oct 16, 2017

tw557 said:
If you would get some dyno results some time it would be interesting to see if any improvements. It's always fun to theorize the expected gains from changes but actual data results tell the story. The only thing is dyno results for me just dont tell the whole story for roadracing or more importantly street driving such as roll on and part throttle results.
I don't even have the Ford Racing tune. I have a completely stock car other then a MAP intercooler. My car believe it or not came CPO with CAI, catted downpipe and full exhaust. I'm sure it was tuned at one point. The dealer confirmed they changed a coil and reflashed the car at that time a week before I bought it. I then proceeded to put the car back to stock and it seem to run better every step I took which I'm sure was being stock tune. I planned on getting the FRPP tune and even have an email stating that if he motor blows at 80000 miles my CPO warrenty would still be intact from my dealer, but with this intercooler, I am actually pretty happy with the low/mid range torque. It still impresses me withthe roll on power.
I planned on trading for a GT this past summer. I sold my motorcycles and the money from selling these performance Ecoboost parts I was pretty close to the gap of the price of a GT. I have a premium and to get into a premium GT was at least 10-12 grand more. I figured oh well, once the test drive is over I won't care to spend the extra. With spending this much over the Eco I wanted to keep the GT stock to keep the warranty since the replacement cost of a coyote is PLENTY! Then I was shocked. I ended up driving 5 different gt's. Stick and automatic. I wanted to stick with an Automatic. I really was disappointed with the low end daily driving power. My last couple cars were turbo's and think I've grown to like that roll on power of forced induction. Sure it was fun Reving from 4000 to red line, but not something that is easy to do in my driving area. I always get my butt handed to me when I make these comments and I'm told to just push the pedal to the floor and rev it to the moon,but thats just not what I like to do daily. So I went and bought a pretty heavily Modded 05 GT for less then the cost to trade up the the GT. This is the beat on it car and feel as strong at the new stock GT. But my future plan is to get a 15 on GT in a few years and I would love the supercharger. Time will tell. Of like you mention, implant one in the ecoboost!

Here's why the AirAid intake tube works like it does:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhdFa5S9FK7crNwh3A7OXCk4e3nhErwbFOBtRcX6ejO5983K3E.jpg

Basically the AirAid tube has two velocity stacks, one where the filter mounts and the other right at the turbo inlet. A very long and gradual tube taper like stock does NOT act like a velocity stack, nor does a very abrupt 90 degree straight edge. The taper has an optimal length depending on flow rates and how far your necking down.

Velocity stacks are far from a new concept, but a long tapered intake tube is a good cheap way to slow down the ecoboost stang to keep GT sales up. I love V8's, at some point I'm going to put a V8 in this stang and turn it into a project car, but as a daily the FP tuned EB engine is great. Good balance of power, handling and fuel economy / driving costs. It'll outrun many other much more expensive turbo cars. Tune, inter cooler, charge piping, DV+ valve and intake cost about $2k on a $25k car with a much better power to weight ratio (after modification) than a $36k STi or about the same as the much more expensive Focus RS (which still has inter cooler heat soak issues).

Here's a good illustration of a turbo system that helps visualize the feedback loop between intake and exhaust. Reducing flow inefficiencies at the intake side reduce back pressure at the exhaust side, you get more power with the same fueling and timing: https://media.giphy.com/media/RODMKl3jClDwc/giphy.gif

Here are some spun velocity stacks on a "direct intake" race engine. Each cylinder gets it's own stack:

Here's a side by side of the AirAid tube vs. the stock tube:

You can buy the AirAid Jr. kit, which is just their intake tube and a snythamax panel filter that's meant to work with the stock air box. That would produce results as good as their full intake kit, however the smaller panel filter will of course become restrictive much sooner as it's dust capacity is markedly lower, so for the extra $100 I think their full intake kit is worth it for the filter alone. However the stock airbox is quite a bit quieter. Mine resonates a bit too, which can be a bit annoying off-throttle where my stock airbox did not or at least chocked out the sound with the acoustic baffles (the raised grid pattern inside the air box).

TEXAS HEAT · Oct 16, 2017

TheLion said:
Here's why the AirAid intake tube works like it does:

Very interesting read on this very topic

http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/a-technical-discussion-of-intakes-and-turbocharging/

sanravel · Oct 24, 2017

Quick question. I need to reflash back to the stock tune because I'm trading in my car. When I run the ProCal software and reload the original stock tune, will the car need to go through the whole learning process again like it did when the tune was installed? I just want to make sure I put the miles on it to get it settled in if necessary before taking it to the dealer for trade.

Thanks,

TEXAS HEAT · Oct 25, 2017

sanravel said:
Quick question. I need to reflash back to the stock tune because I'm trading in my car. When I run the ProCal software and reload the original stock tune, will the car need to go through the whole learning process again like it did when the tune was installed? I just want to make sure I put the miles on it to get it settled in if necessary before taking it to the dealer for trade.

Thanks,

I don't think there is any benefit to removing the pro-cal because I don't think it can be re sold. You're technically buying the certificate and tune, not the tuning device. Once the certificate has been used, that's it, unless FRPP says otherwise... :shrug:

sanravel · Oct 25, 2017

TEXAS HEAT said:
I don't think there is any benefit to removing the pro-cal because I don't think it can be re sold. You're technically buying the certificate and tune, not the tuning device. Once the certificate has been used, that's it, unless FRPP says otherwise... :shrug:

I was told by my Ford dealer that trying to trade with it tuned might get me a lower trade in offer. Not trading with my Ford dealer, looking at another brand.
Not sure how they would know, but, you never know.

I’m also concerned that if I try to sell it myself with the tune I will shrink the pool of likely buyers. People tend to be wary of modded cars.

TEXAS HEAT · Oct 25, 2017

sanravel said:
I was told by my Ford dealer that trying to trade with it tuned might get me a lower trade in offer. Not trading with my Ford dealer, looking at another brand.
Not sure how they would know, but, you never know.

I’m also concerned that if I try to sell it myself with the tune I will shrink the pool of likely buyers. People tend to be wary of modded cars.

A tuned car that doesn't void any of the factory powertrain warranty would seem like it would be a plus, but each dealer is going to view it differently upon trade in. If you could sell it, I would say sure take it off. Honestly, I don't think anyone outside of Ford would know otherwise. I see your logic though. GL

Regs · Oct 26, 2017

The dealer would normally re flash it themselves. If they give you crap about it, take it somewhere else.

yomamma219 · Oct 31, 2017

So I am ready to take the plunge into the FP Tune.

Is Levittown Ford still the best price online? I am seeing 545 shipped without any discounts.

Should I attempt patience and wait for the black Friday sales to see if its cheaper? Sure feels like a bottom dollar price given "retail" is $725 on the FP Site.

Anyone have any Ragrets I should know about? Seems like it will be a pretty straight forward upgrade, I plan to have the garage that did my tires/wheels do it as they seemed quite competent and fair priced and told me they were ASE certified when I asked.

jtmat · Oct 31, 2017

yomamma219 said:
So I am ready to take the plunge into the FP Tune.

Is Levittown Ford still the best price online? I am seeing 545 shipped without any discounts.

Should I attempt patience and wait for the black Friday sales to see if its cheaper? Sure feels like a bottom dollar price given "retail" is $725 on the FP Site.

Anyone have any Ragrets I should know about? Seems like it will be a pretty straight forward upgrade, I plan to have the garage that did my tires/wheels do it as they seemed quite competent and fair priced and told me they were ASE certified when I asked.

Had mine for almost a year (dec is the anniversary). No regrets.... will say that the mpg went down when driving outside of regular D. Avg 24 before, now hovering around 22. When driving in D only, I can get the same as before around 28 mpg for my area. I don't care, but you asked.

It still makes me smile every time I drive the car... this tune is definitely worth it, IMO. I'm not looking to do anything else to the car... rides great.

2 years and 8 months into my purchase and I'm very happy with the car, in general. About to hit 32,000 and no issues.

Waiting for the new Ford Priusboost Mustang Vert in 2020 or 2021... lol

yomamma219 · Nov 1, 2017

Thanks for the reply just the push I needed to go all in,
just need to figure out where to have it installed for the best pricing. I have a manual so I guess my equivalent is just the throttle mode selector which I read somewhere yesterday the tune basically makes normal turn into sport and sport turn insane. Hoping the torque bump is enough to let me spin the 315s I put out back once again. (don't judge me it was an amateur mistake)

Looked at your thoughts post also and it only gave me more confidence I'll be happy with the purchase. Just FYI your dropbox link to the Procal3 instructions appears to be dead.

jtmat said:
Had mine for almost a year (dec is the anniversary). No regrets.... will say that the mpg went down when driving outside of regular D. Avg 24 before, now hovering around 22. When driving in D only, I can get the same as before around 28 mpg for my area. I don't care, but you asked.

It still makes me smile every time I drive the car... this tune is definitely worth it, IMO. I'm not looking to do anything else to the car... rides great.

2 years and 8 months into my purchase and I'm very happy with the car, in general. About to hit 32,000 and no issues.

Waiting for the new Ford Priusboost Mustang Vert in 2020 or 2021... lol

Ford Racing ProCal Tune

Juben

Well-Known Member

Miami EB

Member

Rick B

Well-Known Member

TheLion

Well-Known Member

tw557

Well-Known Member

TheLion

Well-Known Member

TEXAS HEAT

Well-Known Member

sanravel

Active Member

TEXAS HEAT

Well-Known Member

sanravel

Active Member

TEXAS HEAT

Well-Known Member

Regs

Well-Known Member

yomamma219

Well-Known Member

jtmat

Well-Known Member

yomamma219

Well-Known Member