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Stock GT Mani vs F150 Mani Dyno

ahl395

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Why is it your problem? I live in a heavily populated area. Alot of places the speed limit is 45 or heavy road construction. I can mod my car anyway I see fit. If its not your car then why are you so heavily invested in this thread? Why can't we all get along? :ford:
Same as the above. I live in an area where you dont always have the time or space to rev the motor all the way out. The tiny bit of power lost up top I will almost never feel. Compared to the decent bump in midrange power that I will feel every day, every time I accelerate.

Centri wastegate setups make the car "run out of breath" up top too, yet you don't see people debating about that. Strange.

While I generally agree with your position and I am going in the same direction as you, I'll counter our own preference with:

-making a right-hand turn in 2nd gear going ~30-40mph on the street, you'll likely be around 3K RPM. When you accelerate as cross traffic is heading towards you, there's more power and torque from the F150 manifold FOR THE SAME SPEED at that RPM than the GT manifold. While you'll make the same power 500rpm (and ~5mph later), the acceleration from 30-50mph on the street would likely be in the F150 manifold's sweet spot and thus the GT would be slower.

On a track, the higher peak power of the GT is faster, but if your constraints are certain speed ranges at lower RPM, then the F150 can win. Now for an on-ramp, I'm with you that using a lower gear and revving the more powerful GT manifold would be more fun and faster, but for a daily driver where you're not at redline in parking lots, getting on to a main Street, etc... The F150 manifold can be justified. Not my cup of tea, but I get it.
This explanation makes perfect sense to me. This is a mod geared to daily drivers, not the track. So it is only a good mod for some cases. Funny how everybody gets in an uproar about it though.
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Mustang_Lou

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This doesn't make a big enough difference to really change that characteristic. Even with the stock manifold, it's not like an older Honda where you literally have to rev the snot out of it to get moving at a reasonable pace.
Not clear on what you're saying but I think you're saying that the GT is not torqueless like Hondas of yore and if so I agree and I was actually pleasantly surprised when I first drove it as I was expecting less torque being a DOHC engine.

But again, we're each putting that line at a different place. I can't see myself doing this swap but who wouldn't want more TQ in day-to-day driving?

I just don't want to lose the top-end when I need/want it.
 

Bluemustang

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I've been following this thread curiously for awhile. Personally I feel like this car has plenty of low end power stock, more so especially with a tune and E85. The simple FF tune/E85 makes part throttle and low-midrange RPMs feel much stronger. And it's much stronger up top too.

So for me, something like an F150 manifold is not interesting to me at all. And I love how this motor slowly builds power and comes alive at high RPMs which IMO makes for a more rewarding experience. And on the rare occasion I do want to takeoff fast from a stop, I feel like it has plenty of power already.

I'm not willing to sacrifice high RPM or shifting earlier to get a bit more low/midrange power. Besides, the GT mani was designed for the GT and the F-150 mani was designed for the F150. Two different vehicles two different applications. If anything I'd want a GT350 manifold where I get way more power up top and not sacrificing torque at the same time.
 

BmacIL

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Not clear on what you're saying but I think you're saying that the GT is not torqueless like Hondas of yore and if so I agree and I was actually pleasantly surprised when I first drove it as I was expecting less torque being a DOHC engine.

But again, we're each putting that line at a different place. I can't see myself doing this swap but who wouldn't want more TQ in day-to-day driving?

I just don't want to lose the top-end when I need/want it.
What I'm saying is that going to the F-150 manifold provides nowhere near any sizeable difference that changes the character of the engine. It does appear to just shift the powerband down and reduce total area under the curve, despite improving the low-end to a noticeable, albeit relatively small degree.
 

millhouse

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Why is it your problem? I live in a heavily populated area. Alot of places the speed limit is 45 or heavy road construction. I can mod my car anyway I see fit. If its not your car then why are you so heavily invested in this thread? Why can't we all get along? :ford:
Not my problem, the problem I have with the argument. I thoroughly enjoy the rhetoric though...I have nothing against anyone in here. :thumbsup:

While I generally agree with your position and I am going in the same direction as you, I'll counter our own preference with:

-making a right-hand turn in 2nd gear going ~30-40mph on the street, you'll likely be around 3K RPM. When you accelerate as cross traffic is heading towards you, there's more power and torque from the F150 manifold FOR THE SAME SPEED at that RPM than the GT manifold. While you'll make the same power 500rpm (and ~5mph later), the acceleration from 30-50mph on the street would likely be in the F150 manifold's sweet spot and thus the GT would be slower.

On a track, the higher peak power of the GT is faster, but if your constraints are certain speed ranges at lower RPM, then the F150 can win. Now for an on-ramp, I'm with you that using a lower gear and revving the more powerful GT manifold would be more fun and faster, but for a daily driver where you're not at redline in parking lots, getting on to a main Street, etc... The F150 manifold can be justified. Not my cup of tea, but I get it.
Fair enough. You have to admit, it's a wonky idea...modding a car to decrease performance. IMHO, an auto with it's torque converter is what they should have purchased. I personally drive 18k-20k miles per year and have not once felt a need for more mid-range torque. When I want more power, I select the gear and RPM level for the desired output.

This doesn't make a big enough difference to really change that characteristic. Even with the stock manifold, it's not like an older Honda where you literally have to rev the snot out of it to get moving at a reasonable pace.
Exactly.

Same as the above. I live in an area where you dont always have the time or space to rev the motor all the way out. The tiny bit of power lost up top I will almost never feel. Compared to the decent bump in midrange power that I will feel every day, every time I accelerate.

Centri wastegate setups make the car "run out of breath" up top too, yet you don't see people debating about that. Strange.



This explanation makes perfect sense to me. This is a mod geared to daily drivers, not the track. So it is only a good mod for some cases. Funny how everybody gets in an uproar about it though.
It's not just a tiny bit of power lost up top, it's the additional RPM (and subsequently area under the curve).

And you don't have to rev the motor all the way out, you just need to be in an RPM range suitable for your needs. Instead of flooring it at 1500 RPM, downshift and then floor it. If you don't feel like you should have to, I'd argue you should have purchased an auto.
 

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Stuntman

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Not clear on what you're saying but I think you're saying that the GT is not torqueless like Hondas of yore and if so I agree and I was actually pleasantly surprised when I first drove it as I was expecting less torque being a DOHC engine.

But again, we're each putting that line at a different place. I can't see myself doing this swap but who wouldn't want more TQ in day-to-day driving?

I just don't want to lose the top-end when I need/want it.
DOHC do not by nature make less torque. That's more of a function of displacement and an engines stroke. It just so happens that DOHC tends to be used on smaller displacement higher revving engines due to their cost and efficiency and vice versa for pushrods on large displacement and less efficient engines..
 

ahl395

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It's not just a tiny bit of power lost up top, it's the additional RPM (and subsequently area under the curve).

And you don't have to rev the motor all the way out, you just need to be in an RPM range suitable for your needs. Instead of flooring it at 1500 RPM, downshift and then floor it. If you don't feel like you should have to, I'd argue you should have purchased an auto.
I do have an auto and it downshifts at just the thought of accelerating when in sport mode. :lol: I haven't done the mod yet, but I guarantee I wont notice the power loss on the street with the Procharger in the mix too.
 

Eritas

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Fair enough. You have to admit, it's a wonky idea...modding a car to decrease performance. IMHO, an auto with it's torque converter is what they should have purchased. I personally drive 18k-20k miles per year and have not once felt a need for more mid-range torque. When I want more power, I select the gear and RPM level for the desired output.
Lol, haven't heard that word in a while. Yes it's absolutely 'wonky' to hurt the Coyote's strength by trying to improve a weakness -making it more like an LS motor, which it will never be as good as in terms of low to mid range, broad torque. Hence my jokes about closet Camaro lovers. Yes they are making the engine overall a worse performing but if they don't rev out the Coyote, the F150 will be better for them, even if its fundamentally 'wonky'.

There are justified arguments on both sides of the argument. Actually there are 3: F150, GT, GT350. We are on the same page and I think the GT350 manifold plays off the Coyote's strengths, is better for overall performance and will make more power than LS motors can, the F150 is the polar opposite and would be better for those street driven daily drivers who never rev their car out. Everyone's needs are different and everyone is right for what THEIR needs are.
 
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jcart953

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Its kind of sad that some people cant understand the basic concept of different strokes for different folks. There is always going to be someone who likes something different. Take a look at some of the classic arguments:

Apple vs Andriod
PC vs Mac
Auto vs Manual
V4/V6 vs V8
Democrat vs Republican


The sooner people learn we all have different styles/opinions the better off some of you will be....
 

Eritas

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Its kind of sad that some people cant understand the basic concept of different strokes for different folks. There is always going to be someone who likes something different. Take a look at some of the classic arguments:

Apple vs Andriod
PC vs Mac
Auto vs Manual
V4/V6 vs V8
Democrat vs Republican


The sooner people learn we all have different styles/opinions the better off some of you will be....
Nope. If you don't agree with me you're a racist bigot! :lol:
 

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millhouse

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I do have an auto and it downshifts at just the thought of accelerating when in sport mode. :lol: I haven't done the mod yet, but I guarantee I wont notice the power loss on the street with the Procharger in the mix too.
I'd be curious to see a dyno difference between the two with the pro-charger. You're correct though, not a whole lot of difference on the street when you'll have zero traction at nearly all RPM.

Lol, haven't heard that word in a while.
Haha, it seemed to fit the situation.

Everyone's needs are different and everyone is right for what THEIR needs are.
I have no problem with that.

Its kind of sad that some people cant understand the basic concept of different strokes for different folks. There is always going to be someone who likes something different. Take a look at some of the classic arguments:

Apple vs Andriod
PC vs Mac
Auto vs Manual
V4/V6 vs V8
Democrat vs Republican


The sooner people learn we all have different styles/opinions the better off some of you will be....
The problem with what you have said is that in each example, one isn't inherently better than the other. A better comparison would be that you purchased the latest computer with a high end processor. That processor is a bit too fast for you'r needs, as you never use it to it's maximum capability...so you decide to SLOW IT DOWN. In the end, you're left with a slower computer that's out of warranty...and has depreciated in value.

That's my analogy and how I see it.

I'm perfectly tolerant of the idea....but let's not confuse tolerance here with acceptance.

And I stand by my statement, this is the first time I have been involved or read a thread in a mustang forum where someone is intentionally trying to make their car slower because they don't use the power. I've been on mustang forums since 2001. :headbonk:
 

ForYourOwnGood

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And I stand by my statement, this is the first time I have been involved or read a thread in a mustang forum where someone is intentionally trying to make their car slower because they don't use the power. I've been on mustang forums since 2001. :headbonk:
You're acting like losing 12hp is going to cost you 3 seconds in the 1/4. 12hp isn't even worth worrying about on these cars, you lose that going from 93 to 87 and plenty of people do that too.

I would wait for some before and after timeslips, but I would gladly trade 12 ponies at 6800rpm for 20-35 torque literally everywhere else in a DD.
 

millhouse

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You're acting like losing 12hp is going to cost you 3 seconds in the 1/4. 12hp isn't even worth worrying about on these cars, you lose that going from 93 to 87 and plenty of people do that too.

I would wait for some before and after timeslips, but I would gladly trade 12 ponies at 6800rpm for 20-35 torque literally everywhere else in a DD.
You're loosing 500rpm...and that 12 hp loss looks to be throughout the entire curve. I agree, 12 hp by itself is not extremely significant, but quite literally the entire HP curve has been lowered and shifted down by 500 rpm. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that f150 manifold is worth a good 0.2 ET addition in the 1/4 mile.
 

Eritas

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The problem with what you have said is that in each example, one isn't inherently better than the other. A better comparison would be that you purchased the latest computer with a high end processor. That processor is a bit too fast for you'r needs, as you never use it to it's maximum capability...so you decide to SLOW IT DOWN. In the end, you're left with a slower computer that's out of warranty...and has depreciated in value.

That's my analogy and how I see it.
I think this is a better analogy for the F150 intake manifold:

If you put smaller front brakes on your car, you hurt its overall braking CAPABILITY. But for drag racing, braking isn't a priority or need. So putting bicycle front brakes on the car will make the car faster for that drag racing application even though it is fundamentally worse for performance -that's not important for that application.

The F150 manifold is like putting on smaller brakes in the sense that it hurts performance overall, but it improves a performance aspect (low RPM power/torque) when not shifting above 6K RPM.

You're right that the F150 manifold (and smaller brakes) hurts performance. But the F150 makes the car faster for lower RPM upshifts (on the street) and the smaller brakes help make a car faster on the drag strip.

You're acting like losing 12hp is going to cost you 3 seconds in the 1/4. 12hp isn't even worth worrying about on these cars, you lose that going from 93 to 87 and plenty of people do that too.

I would wait for some before and after timeslips, but I would gladly trade 12 ponies at 6800rpm for 20-35 torque literally everywhere else in a DD.
But it's not "12 ponies at 6800rpm'.

At 6,600RPM the F150 manifold is making ~32whp less!

You're only looking at the difference in max power between the F150 and GT. So when you rev the GT out to 7K, you're making significantly more power from 6,200-7,000RPM (an 800RPM span)

When you upshift, the RPMs drop to around 5K RPM. There's a 250RPM span between 5K-5,250 as well as a 700RPM span between 5,500-6,200 where the F150 is making more power than the GT, but that difference isn't as significant as the 32whp advantage the GT has over the F150 at high RPM . So when shifting at 7K, the GT should accelerate better.

Now if you don't rev past 6,250RPM, the F150 will actually be faster than the GT shifting at 6,250. Which one is "better" depends on if you rev it out or not.
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