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Honda Warns Against ‘Stupid’ Auto Loans Driving U.S. Sales Gains

L8APEX

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A top U.S. executive at Honda Motor Co. (7267) said competitors are doing “stupid things” to boost auto sales, including making seven-year-long car loans that harm buyers.

Automakers are increasingly selling vehicles with 84-month loans that reduce monthly payments while making it tougher to repay faster than cars lose value, John Mendel, Honda’s U.S. sales chief, said in an interview. The Tokyo-based company will avoid longer-term loans even as Nissan Motor Co. (7201) tries to supplant it as the fifth-biggest automaker in the U.S., he said.

“You’re ringing the bell on a new-car sale, but that customer is saddled -- they’re stretched so thin,” Mendel said at the North American International Auto Show last week. Extended-term loans are “stupid not just for us, but for the industry.”

The comments by Honda’s Mendel were a rare show of caution during the auto show in Detroit, as car-industry executives cheered the best year of U.S. sales since 2006. Deliveries are projected to rise to 16.7 million this year, which would be a sixth straight increase and extend the longest streak of gains since World War II.

Sales will keep growing as the Federal Reserve’s zero-interest-rate policy encourages investors to collect yield from auto loans, said Tom Webb, chief economist at Manheim Consulting. While not in a bubble, the industry is taking on more risk by extending longer loans with smaller down payments to buyers with blemished credit scores, he said.

‘Not Pretty’

“We’ve seen this movie before, we know how it ends, and it’s not pretty,” Webb told reporters at an event before last week’s show. “But I say that it has longer to run, and we have already paid the price of admission. So we might as well stay to the end. You just keep your eyes on the exit door.”

More than one in four new-car loans in October and November were 73 to 84 months long, according to Experian Plc. The share of new-car loans at those term lengths was less then 10 percent in 2009 and 2010.

“It can have some negative impact on the market in creating a vicious cycle of negative equity if the consumer doesn’t hold onto their vehicle long enough,” Melinda Zabritski, senior director of automotive finance for Experian, said by phone. “Something has to be done to keep the market affordable, or consumer buying is going to have to change and we’ll have to return to less frequent purchases.”

Honda Sales

Honda’s U.S. deliveries will grow 2 percent to 4 percent this year to a record, driven by three new or updated utility vehicles: the subcompact HR-V, the compact CR-V and the mid-size Pilot, Mendel said.

Nissan, the sixth-largest automaker by U.S. sales, narrowed the gap with Honda for the second straight year in 2014. The Yokohama, Japan-based company trailed Honda by fewer than 20,000 vehicles, or less than the number of Civics sold in December.

“There is no reason why Nissan should be behind Honda, particularly in this market,” Jose Munoz, Nissan’s executive vice president in charge of North America, said after the company debuted its new Titan pickup. “When we reinforce our presence in the truck segment, we’re going to be more of a challenge for them than we are today.”

Munoz declined to predict whether Nissan will overtake Honda in 2015 or 2016.

“I don’t lose my sleep with that, but it’s going to happen,” he said. “We’re not going to do any crazy thing to achieve it.”

Mendel said that rather than chase sales goals, Honda will rely on 36- to 48-month long loans that more easily allow consumers to owe less on their car than what it’s worth when sold as a used vehicle.

“They’re in equity, don’t put any more money down, they get another car -- we call it keys-to-keys,” he said. “That’s the kind of experience that really engrains loyalty.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-...loans-driving-u-s-sales-gains.html?cmpid=yhoo
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Wildcat

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He's exactly right. A person buying a car should look for the lowest loan term possible (within their budget of course). Cars are one of the worst investments possible, which is one of the reasons it's smart to buy used.

For years, car companies have offered long loan terms and even the no payments for a year incentives to get buyers in the door. To be perfectly blunt, if consumers are too stupid to know that's a bad financial decision, then I don't feel sorry for them.

Loan terms for 72 months and beyond are a bad financial decision. I was in the mortgage business for awhile, and it was bad enough seeing people underwater on their homes because they took out low downpayment conventional or FHA loans. Getting underwater on a car is definitely not worth it.

I understand many vehicle purchases are an emotional decision. I bought a Mustang, so obviously I wasn't thinking about practicality, but I sure did my best to make the highest payments I could afford and even pay extra to build equity.
 

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He's exactly right. A person buying a car should look for the lowest loan term possible (within their budget of course). Cars are one of the worst investments possible, which is one of the reasons it's smart to buy used.

For years, car companies have offered long loan terms and even the no payments for a year incentives to get buyers in the door. To be perfectly blunt, if consumers are too stupid to know that's a bad financial decision, then I don't feel sorry for them.

Loan terms for 72 months and beyond are a bad financial decision. I was in the mortgage business for awhile, and it was bad enough seeing people underwater on their homes because they took out low downpayment conventional or FHA loans. Getting underwater on a car is definitely not worth it.

I understand many vehicle purchases are an emotional decision. I bought a Mustang, so obviously I wasn't thinking about practicality, but I sure did my best to make the highest payments I could afford and even pay extra to build equity.
While I agree the problem is that with a lack of self-regulation by lenders or universal regulation by government, many lending institutions have already proven they will sink the entire economy for an extra buck.

This and student loans are the next bubbles to burst. I'm generally not a fan of regulation, but that was before these idiot companies came along that would literally rather plunge the entire world into recession than lose any opportunity for a quick buck.
 

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I look for the longest term I can find. That's only for "just in case" situations. The GT, like the Hummer, I opted for 72 months. I paid the Hummer off in about 28 months? I plan on the same for the GT, just want a small minimum if something happens and I need money elsewhere.

Some may not think it's smart but its working well for me. The difference in interest is barely anything so don't even argue that the .99% of a 36 month is much different than the 2.97% on my 72 month. Oooo...<~$600 :jerking:
 

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While I agree the problem is that with a lack of self-regulation by lenders or universal regulation by government, many lending institutions have already proven they will sink the entire economy for an extra buck.

This and student loans are the next bubbles to burst. I'm generally not a fan of regulation, but that was before these idiot companies came along that would literally rather plunge the entire world into recession than lose any opportunity for a quick buck.
I agree that student loans are going to be a big problem in the near future; I know all to well the burden of student loans. I have a mountain of them.

I wouldn't be worried about auto loans being a serious bubble. The market for auto loans is relatively small compared to mortgage market. Subprime auto lending is a concern when it comes to consumer protections against shady practices, but unlike subprime mortgages, subprime auto loans aren't always bad. People with bad credit don't need to buy a house to have a place to live. You can rent an apartment, rent a house, or even live with family. However, many people with less than perfect credit absolutely need a car to get to and from their jobs, so making an auto loan to someone with poor credit is not always a bad decision, and the exposure is obviously a lot less than a mortgage in most cases.

I look for the longest term I can find. That's only for "just in case" situations. The GT, like the Hummer, I opted for 72 months. I paid the Hummer off in about 28 months? I plan on the same for the GT, just want a small minimum if something happens and I need money elsewhere.

Some may not think it's smart but its working well for me. The difference in interest is barely anything so don't even argue that the .99% of a 36 month is much different than the 2.97% on my 72 month. Oooo...<~$600 :jerking:
I certainly can see your point, but many people use the longer loan terms to bite off more than they can chew (e.g. buying a much more expensive car than they need simply because a long loan term's lower payment allows them to).

And the amount of interest difference isn't the main issue the Honda exec was talking about. His point was about equity. Long loan terms increase the risk of having little or no equity in a rapidly depreciating asset like a car. Some people like you may have the discipline to pay extra, but for every person like you there are many others who never do pay extra on principle. They start out with the idea that they will, but other spending keeps them from following through.
 

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And the amount of interest difference isn't the main issue the Honda exec was talking about. His point was about equity. Long loan terms increase the risk of having little or no equity in a rapidly depreciating asset like a car. Some people like you may have the discipline to pay extra, but for every person like you there are many others who never do pay extra on principle. They start out with the idea that they will, but other spending keeps them from following through.
Yea, sorry, I just wanted to share my reasoning. Interest rates seem to be the biggest argument people I talk to make when, in reality, its not that much money. Especially over 6 years.

If I don't make large payments early I may be behind the equity for a little while, but should pass it about ~$5,000 into the loan; that's IF I were to take it slow. Also, in my situation I plan to keep cars for a while. I have talked about a C7 in a couple years but I am not sure. Growing up, my family has always driven cars to about 200,000mi. At which point value really means nothing to you because you have thoroughly got your moneys worth.
 

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He's exactly right. A person buying a car should look for the lowest loan term possible (within their budget of course). Cars are one of the worst investments possible, which is one of the reasons it's smart to buy used.

For years, car companies have offered long loan terms and even the no payments for a year incentives to get buyers in the door. To be perfectly blunt, if consumers are too stupid to know that's a bad financial decision, then I don't feel sorry for them.

Loan terms for 72 months and beyond are a bad financial decision. I was in the mortgage business for awhile, and it was bad enough seeing people underwater on their homes because they took out low downpayment conventional or FHA loans. Getting underwater on a car is definitely not worth it.

I understand many vehicle purchases are an emotional decision. I bought a Mustang, so obviously I wasn't thinking about practicality, but I sure did my best to make the highest payments I could afford and even pay extra to build equity.
Not when you're paying less than 2% interest for 72! :D
 

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This thread reminds me of the sales that get promoted "0% for 72 months!"

When, you actually pay less for the vehicle if you take the rebates, much higher interest, and loan for 60 months.. lol

That 0% though!
 

PonyPower

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In my opinion this is an excellent read. It is very true that sadly a lot of people try and take the lower monthly payment then get blind sided if they ever try to turn in their vehicles early. I think things like this give the sales automotive industry a negative reputation. It's a shame because longer loans can be good for a safety net if need be, but most people tend to not pay their cars off early.
 

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PonyPower

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This thread reminds me of the sales that get promoted "0% for 72 months!"

When, you actually pay less for the vehicle if you take the rebates, much higher interest, and loan for 60 months.. lol

That 0% though!
10 times out of 10 unless you put nothing down.
 

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I honestly don't see the problem with longer loan terms. I like having the lower monthly payment to free up money for other things. Im gonna finance my mustang on a 72 month term (try and go 84 if i could) but ill probably pay it off in 4 or 5 years (ill make double payments maybe 4 or 5 times a year) If the interest rates aren't too high ill go that route. I plan on keeping the car past the loan term anyway.
 

mizer67

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I can't fault the average consumer for taking advantage of interest rate arbitrage on a long term, low interest loan on one of the few opportunities they have to do so.

However, most people don't have the discipline to do this and are just reaching to buy more car than they really can afford, don't keep the car long enough to pay it off and then end up in a negative equity downward sprial.

Also, many times the arbitrage risk outweighs the reward, even with the Yellen put on the market.

I'm with Honda on this, we've been here before in ~2005/6 and we know where it leads. It's not a matter of if this bites people, it's when.

At least it's not as destructive as housing, but we're getting back to ~2005/6 there too.
 

2Cool

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I like the option, and yes I tend to payoff early.

Problem is the majority of people are not like that, they will buy more car than they can afford using the longest term possible, and end up defaulting when they can't carry the loan. So yeah, incoming new subprime loan fiasco.
 
 




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