Bathurst 17

That last hour or two of the race was well worth watching. I was flicking between boring F1 and Bathurst and now that the Ford v Holden thing is coming to an end, i hope supercars can reinvent itself into something worth watching in the future. I hope we will soon see a Mustang bodied car running around. It would be nice to see several makes fighting. Well done to Fox, for a great coverage.

bathurst is 99x more exciting than F1 : Japan.
once vettel retired.. shows over unless you support lewis or daniel.
also season could be over in austin.!

I was there yesterday and it was great to hear those big throaty V8's charging round the track.
There were lots of Mustang's on show in the various vendor exhibitions, 4 different variants from memory. Including a Tickford one done out in the same livery of the Alan Moffatt Colin Bond 1,2 finish cars.
As for next year I understand that General Motors will be running a new twin turbo 6 in the guise of the new German Commodore replacement. It did a lap and you couldn't hear it.
Not sure what Ford are doing , but a V8 Mustang would get a ton of support.
But if they let a Nissan GTR race it will be daylight second and dull as dishwater!

Flying Fiz said:

I was there yesterday and it was great to hear those big throaty V8's charging round the track.
There were lots of Mustang's on show in the various vendor exhibitions, 4 different variants from memory. Including a Tickford one done out in the same livery of the Alan Moffatt Colin Bond 1,2 finish cars.
As for next year I understand that General Motors will be running a new twin turbo 6 in the guise of the new German Commodore replacement. It did a lap and you couldn't hear it.
Not sure what Ford are doing , but a V8 Mustang would get a ton of support.
But if they let a Nissan GTR race it will be daylight second and dull as dishwater!

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Good to see GM at least continuing to support s/cars. I know Ford is now the "Ranger" company. But Ford, get your blouse of and get that Pony out there.

Hi Guys

I am a flag marshal over the weekend at the top of the mountain.
The V6TT sandman demo sound a lot better in real life and getting used to the TT sound will grow on some people. It will only be run next year by Lowndes as all other holden teams will stick with V8 until 2019 season.

05STNG said:

Hi Guys

I am a flag marshal over the weekend at the top of the mountain.
The V6TT sandman demo sound a lot better in real life and getting used to the TT sound will grow on some people. It will only be run next year by Lowndes as all other holden teams will stick with V8 until 2019 season.

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If jag can make the F-type V6 sound good........ There is more than one way to skin a cat and if we where after the ultimate engine sound, then a V10 might be the go.

i will take competitive racing > a good sound.. f1 now can still have a v12 and lewis still win by default = boring

I have to say that as much as I love the Porsche GT3 cup cars, listening to them at the track going past full throttle is not a lovely sound. It is really harsh and raspy and absolutely screaming. The Sandman was quiet until it was right on you, yet you could hear the V8's coming a mile away, just cant beat that great V8 sound.
Heck even my wife who doesn't understand my love of cars thinks the Mustang sounds fantastic.

Mick said:

If jag can make the F-type V6 sound good........ There is more than one way to skin a cat and if we where after the ultimate engine sound, then a V10 might be the go.

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Unfortunately Supercars is a control category where a V8 or now a V6TT is allowed. :headbonk:

This is why there is such a growing support for GT production cars. The 12 hour had massive support from spectators

05STNG said:

Unfortunately Supercars is a control category where a V8 or now a V6TT is allowed. :headbonk:

This is why there is such a growing support for GT production cars. The 12 hour had massive support from spectators

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Nothing wrong with being a control category, as it promotes close racing and keeps cost down, which in turn keeps lower budget teams in the game.

Flying Fiz said:

I have to say that as much as I love the Porsche GT3 cup cars, listening to them at the track going past full throttle is not a lovely sound. It is really harsh and raspy and absolutely screaming. The Sandman was quiet until it was right on you, yet you could hear the V8's coming a mile away, just cant beat that great V8 sound.
Heck even my wife who doesn't understand my love of cars thinks the Mustang sounds fantastic.

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I do love a good V8 sound. (Standard Mustang is a bit lame) But hell, a Lambo Hurican or Lexus LFA in full anger, is really something. Music to the ears.

Mick said:

Nothing wrong with being a control category, as it promotes close racing and keeps cost down, which in turn keeps lower budget teams in the game.

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It's a control category because after '92 it became nothing more than a marketing platform for Ford and Holden. Costs are a distant consideration.

Now that the category has become even more irrelevant they're struggling to find a way to survive against what are frankly better categories of racing.

IMO the V6 Commodore will be short lived. It's being done for marketing reasons as Holden is now struggling massively for sales whereas Ford has had big success with the Ranger, Mustang and Focus but within a couple of years you'll see mostly Mustang and Camaro bodied cars running around in attempt to keep the existing fan base. It's not like the cars are even remotely related to the road going name sakes so they can largely keep the same platform and stick other bodies on them. Any make that wants to participate can, they don't need to have a suitable platform, just a badge they want to promote.

apsilon said:

It's a control category because after '92 it became nothing more than a marketing platform for Ford and Holden. Costs are a distant consideration.

Now that the category has become even more irrelevant they're struggling to find a way to survive against what are frankly better categories of racing.

IMO the V6 Commodore will be short lived. It's being done for marketing reasons as Holden is now struggling massively for sales whereas Ford has had big success with the Ranger, Mustang and Focus but within a couple of years you'll see mostly Mustang and Camaro bodied cars running around in attempt to keep the existing fan base. It's not like the cars are even remotely related to the road going name sakes so they can largely keep the same platform and stick other bodies on them. Any make that wants to participate can, they don't need to have a suitable platform, just a badge they want to promote.

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Of course control category keeps cost down and it's not a distant consideration. It's why, many of the small operations can stay within striking distance of the big teams and unlike F1, lots of cars are always in the game. Very simple. Have one basic structure and stick on the body/panels/engine, to promote a particular car brand. At least our control cars (unlike DTM, Nascar and others) actually look like the cars they represent. It's a formula that makes a lot of sense, because any car manufacturer can easily participate, without having to build a special production car or homologation special.

We currently have sponsorship on several of the cars. Trust me, even if it wasn't a control category the budgets wouldn't change much if at all. Sure the teams would like to spend more but the market is too small to support their appetite unlike US based categories that have a massive market to draw funds from or F1 that have the global market.

Keeping costs down isn't the reason it's the way it is. It's marketing, almost solely.

The new Commodore (with the V6 under the bonnet) will only appear at the wildcard events as an extra car/s.

I would presume only 888 would run any extra cars, maybe with enduro co-drivers (other than at Bathurst). Otherwise all the regular Holden team cars will be either the new or current Commodore, all with the current V8. Most teams seem commited to the new model body shape next year.

Ford Australia is controlled by Ford Asia Pacific, so they can't blow the nose without their permission. This seems to be the main stumbing block for Ford Australia participating in Supercars. There does seem to be some glimmer of hope for the Mustang or Mondeo in 2019.

Holden is about to come under the control of the GM equivalent of Ford Asia Pacific, so Holden's continued financial support of Supercars can not be assumed.

The support for the 12 Hour is very modest compared with the Supercars race. The GT3 category here is currently on the ropes, and Supercars is about to take over management of it. We will see were that ends up, but most of the main players in the Australian car market don't has GT3 cars, so manufacturer support potential is limited.

GT4 looks more interesting but seems to be aimed at 'amateur' competitors sadly. I think crash repairs would be expensive, and not quick. Supercars are good for quick turnarounds of race damage with the control chassis and its bolt on panels, etc.

If the Nissan GTR was introduced, it would be strictly controlled, so there is no need to fear a 1990s Group A type dommination.

As for production car racing, it look unspectacular and nobody comes to watch it; end of story.

This years Bathurst crowd was the second best crowd ever. The customers are voting with their feet. Supercars are not doing too much wrong at the moment.

The Ford versus Holden culture is not as strong as in the past, but it is still substantially more powerful than anthing else at the moment.