Check Engine Light

Spartan_Stang · Dec 21, 2016

About a week ago I had my check engine light come on while I was on my way home. The next day I took it up to the dealer to have it checked out. I left the car there and when I went back to pick it up I asked the receptionist what was wrong. She told me "All I was told was layman terms" I asked her to tell me what they told her and she read almost word for word what was on the service receipt. I then asked to speak with the technician that worked on my car. She told me they were at lunch (which was understandable). I then asked that she had a technician call me, she told me that technicians are not allowed to be on the phone. After that I took my car and figured I would figure it put on my own.

So here I am figuring it out. The receptionist said that the problem was something to do with a "misfire with the transmission". Those were the "layman terms".

Here is exactly what the service receipt says:

"Check for maintenance light, or check engine light on
Checked had DTCS P0308 and P0316. Found TSB 115-0059.
Misfire happens between MFF-RUN 30 sec.
Reprogrammed PCM according to TSB 15-0059. Cleared DTCS and rechecked.
OK"

Now again today my check engine light came back on and I'm assuming it will be the same issue. I am taking the car back tomorrow to have it looked at. If anyone knows what those codes mean and can give me some information on what is happening and/or advice for what I should tell the dealer that would be great! Thanks in advance!

timd38 · Dec 21, 2016

Crank position sensor.

Spartan_Stang · Dec 21, 2016

After a little research myself, I found that the DTCS codes are saying that Cylinder #8 is misfiring, and the other is a misfire during start up.

timd38 said:
Crank position sensor.

Thanks for the response but this isn't very helpful. Are you saying that the sensor is bad? Or? Should I let the dealer know to check this sensor?

Could you elaborate a little?

Chameleon · Dec 30, 2016

Any update?

robertwsimpson · Dec 30, 2016

the TSB doesn't say why this happens. It only applies to cars built before 12/4/14 with misfire codes and a rough idle. There is a pretty specific diagnostic track to take, and it involves data logging, so I wonder if your latest check engine light isn't for something different...

Let us know what you find out.

Chameleon · Jan 4, 2017

[MENTION=14726]Spartan_Stang[/MENTION] Any update?

Spartan_Stang · Jan 20, 2017

[MENTION=7648]Chameleon[/MENTION] So after a long headache inducing experience with my local dealer. Here is what is boiled down to. Anything in quotes is direct from the service receipts I requested.

12/14/16: Took the car in for CEL. Codes were, P0308 and P0316. Dealers "Correction" was "Reprogrammed PCM according to TSB 15-0059. Cleared DTCS and rechecked. OK"

12/22/16: Took the car back in for CEL. I assumed it was for the same codes.

"Complaint: Check for maintenance light, or check engine light on. Customer was in prior and check engine light came back on. Would like Intake Manifold Rail Control checked out as well."

"Correction: Inspect found code P0300 found multiple misfires. Found oil 2-3 QTS down. Customer to change oil."

After they told me it was low oil I giggled a little because I do my own oil changes and there was no way my oil was 2-3 qts low. But I went ahead and did a full oil change anyways. This turned the CEL off for a couple hundred miles, but then it returned.

1/18/17 (This is when I got the car back, I didn't have time to bring the car in right away after the CEL came back, I took it in a few days before the 18th):

I don't have a written "complaint" but I think you can figure that out haha

"Correction: C/S CHK engine light is still on. Checked had DTC P0308. Cleared DTCS. Performed misfire monitor. Relearn drove - P0308 returned. Swapped #8 coil and plug. Drove - P0308 returned. Swapped injector with #6. Drove - P0308 returned. Performed relative compression test - all cylinders at 0% - removed intake manifold and inspected, found bank 2 intake runner control was broken. Replaced intake manifold according to W.S.M. cleared DTCS/KAM. Performed misfire monitor relearn. Rechckd. All okay."

So in conclusion, someone told a lie on 12/22/16 cause clearly the car was not inspected to my requests or this would have been solved right then. It's pretty frustrating when I literally told them exactly what the problem was and they ignored me and told me my oil was low.... Anyways, the CEL is gone now and I doubt it will be back anytime soon. I'm glad the issue was eventually found, just annoying that it could have been solved much sooner ad 1 oil change earlier.

OrangeStang · Jan 25, 2017

Spartan_Stang said:
[MENTION=7648]Chameleon[/MENTION] So after a long headache inducing experience with my local dealer. Here is what is boiled down to. Anything in quotes is direct from the service receipts I requested.

12/14/16: Took the car in for CEL. Codes were, P0308 and P0316. Dealers "Correction" was "Reprogrammed PCM according to TSB 15-0059. Cleared DTCS and rechecked. OK"

12/22/16: Took the car back in for CEL. I assumed it was for the same codes.

"Complaint: Check for maintenance light, or check engine light on. Customer was in prior and check engine light came back on. Would like Intake Manifold Rail Control checked out as well."

"Correction: Inspect found code P0300 found multiple misfires. Found oil 2-3 QTS down. Customer to change oil."

After they told me it was low oil I giggled a little because I do my own oil changes and there was no way my oil was 2-3 qts low. But I went ahead and did a full oil change anyways. This turned the CEL off for a couple hundred miles, but then it returned.

1/18/17 (This is when I got the car back, I didn't have time to bring the car in right away after the CEL came back, I took it in a few days before the 18th):

I don't have a written "complaint" but I think you can figure that out haha

"Correction: C/S CHK engine light is still on. Checked had DTC P0308. Cleared DTCS. Performed misfire monitor. Relearn drove - P0308 returned. Swapped #8 coil and plug. Drove - P0308 returned. Swapped injector with #6. Drove - P0308 returned. Performed relative compression test - all cylinders at 0% - removed intake manifold and inspected, found bank 2 intake runner control was broken. Replaced intake manifold according to W.S.M. cleared DTCS/KAM. Performed misfire monitor relearn. Rechckd. All okay."

So in conclusion, someone told a lie on 12/22/16 cause clearly the car was not inspected to my requests or this would have been solved right then. It's pretty frustrating when I literally told them exactly what the problem was and they ignored me and told me my oil was low.... Anyways, the CEL is gone now and I doubt it will be back anytime soon. I'm glad the issue was eventually found, just annoying that it could have been solved much sooner ad 1 oil change earlier.

Happy that you got this fixed. What exactly is this intake runner control?

MaxQ · Jan 26, 2017

IMRC

OrangeStang said:
Happy that you got this fixed. What exactly is this intake runner control?

I Learnt something today, Did a search and came up with this explanation,

"An intake manifold runner control is an electronic system that gives data regarding linkage and plate position to the powertrain control module. The IMRC is housed inside an aluminium casting that stores a motorized actuator with air passages for each cylinder. The IMRC does not become active at engine speeds below 3,000 rotations per minute to allow its linkages to fully extend and air passages butterfly valves to close
The IMRC is designed to allow the engine to operate under the best conditions in any speed level that the engine is generating. When the machine is using a small portion of its power, the intake manifold automatically becomes longer, which allows the engine to generate greater torque while staying smooth. When the engine revs up and needs more horsepower, the valve plates in the IMRC are open and shorten the intake manifold runners.
Some problems that can happen to the IMRC system include the clips that hold the linkage rods together breaking and engine deposits causing the valve plates to stick together over time. When the valve plates stick, the engine's power output can be compromised at higher speed requirements as well as causing strain to the system itself, leading to damage over time."

Cobra Jet · Jan 27, 2017

The IMRC system was a new control found on the 1996 Ford 4.6 DOHC Cobra engine, which was carried over into the Mustang line from the Lincoln MKVIII.

It was problematic 21years ago.... Seems the vendor who manufactures those units for Ford has not improved the design any better or there is an inherent flaw in the "new" IMRCs, because there's been quite a few folks on this site who have had the same failure.

Back then, there was a vendor who created IMRC delete plates for the 4.6 DOHC's. Essentially, the owner would remove the factory IMRCs and reinstall the delete plate. The delete plate was merely an IMRC with no butterflies in it anymore, it was "open", so no more potential for failure. Most folks who had replaced their malfunctioning IMRCs with Ford replacements only found out again in the future, they faced the same failures yet again...hence the aftermarket niche for the delete plates.

Those who did use the 4.6 DOHC IMRC delete plates back then said:
1) there was no performance losses noted and the vehicle still functioned without issues
2) if deleting, the factory programming for the IMRC had to be turned "off" via tuning software
3) if not disabling via a tune, hook up a relay to the stock controller box's wiring harness to make the computer think that the IMRCs are still intact and functional

Is there an IMRC delete available for the S550 Coyote (or can a delete even be used)?

mikeD4V · Jan 27, 2017

Spartan_Stang said:
[MENTION=7648]Chameleon[/MENTION] So after a long headache inducing experience with my local dealer. Here is what is boiled down to. Anything in quotes is direct from the service receipts I requested.

12/14/16: Took the car in for CEL. Codes were, P0308 and P0316. Dealers "Correction" was "Reprogrammed PCM according to TSB 15-0059. Cleared DTCS and rechecked. OK"

12/22/16: Took the car back in for CEL. I assumed it was for the same codes.

"Complaint: Check for maintenance light, or check engine light on. Customer was in prior and check engine light came back on. Would like Intake Manifold Rail Control checked out as well."

"Correction: Inspect found code P0300 found multiple misfires. Found oil 2-3 QTS down. Customer to change oil."

After they told me it was low oil I giggled a little because I do my own oil changes and there was no way my oil was 2-3 qts low. But I went ahead and did a full oil change anyways. This turned the CEL off for a couple hundred miles, but then it returned.

1/18/17 (This is when I got the car back, I didn't have time to bring the car in right away after the CEL came back, I took it in a few days before the 18th):

I don't have a written "complaint" but I think you can figure that out haha

"Correction: C/S CHK engine light is still on. Checked had DTC P0308. Cleared DTCS. Performed misfire monitor. Relearn drove - P0308 returned. Swapped #8 coil and plug. Drove - P0308 returned. Swapped injector with #6. Drove - P0308 returned. Performed relative compression test - all cylinders at 0% - removed intake manifold and inspected, found bank 2 intake runner control was broken. Replaced intake manifold according to W.S.M. cleared DTCS/KAM. Performed misfire monitor relearn. Rechckd. All okay."

So in conclusion, someone told a lie on 12/22/16 cause clearly the car was not inspected to my requests or this would have been solved right then. It's pretty frustrating when I literally told them exactly what the problem was and they ignored me and told me my oil was low.... Anyways, the CEL is gone now and I doubt it will be back anytime soon. I'm glad the issue was eventually found, just annoying that it could have been solved much sooner ad 1 oil change earlier.

LOL this same shit happened to me (http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52589). If you were in MD I'd swear you must've taken it to the same dealership. Long story short I limped it to another dealer who replaced the ECU under warranty and it's been running fine ever since; 1year and ~10k miles.

mikeD4V · Jan 27, 2017

Cobra Jet said:
The IMRC system was a new control found on the 1996 Ford 4.6 DOHC Cobra engine, which was carried over into the Mustang line from the Lincoln MKVIII.

It was problematic 21years ago.... Seems the vendor who manufactures those units for Ford has not improved the design any better or there is an inherent flaw in the "new" IMRCs, because there's been quite a few folks on this site who have had the same failure.

Back then, there was a vendor who created IMRC delete plates for the 4.6 DOHC's. Essentially, the owner would remove the factory IMRCs and reinstall the delete plate. The delete plate was merely an IMRC with no butterflies in it anymore, it was "open", so no more potential for failure. Most folks who had replaced their malfunctioning IMRCs with Ford replacements only found out again in the future, they faced the same failures yet again...hence the aftermarket niche for the delete plates.

Those who did use the 4.6 DOHC IMRC delete plates back then said:
1) there was no performance losses noted and the vehicle still functioned without issues
2) if deleting, the factory programming for the IMRC had to be turned "off" via tuning software
3) if not disabling via a tune, hook up a relay to the stock controller box's wiring harness to make the computer think that the IMRCs are still intact and functional

Is there an IMRC delete available for the S550 Coyote (or can a delete even be used)?

IMRCs were 96-98 cobras (and maybe all B headed 4.6 4Vs?). The high volume, low velocity heads combined with a long runner intake setup is why the IMRCs were added. The B heads flowed so well that it hurt bottom end torque. They revised the heads and intake on later 4v motors (C heads).

Around 3k RPM you could feel them open like the car had just gotten a little surge of power. Not like a "nawsss" hit in fast and furious but it was noticeable. Once you swapped gears to a 4.xx gear combo, which everyone did, the IMRCs weren't needed. You could replace them with the delete plates, remove the butterflies and epoxy the pin holes, or rig them to stay open permanently.

If I remember correctly the guys that made the plates were Sean Hyland and MMR.

Spartan_Stang · Jan 27, 2017

mikeD4V said:
LOL this same shit happened to me (http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52589). If you were in MD I'd swear you must've taken it to the same dealership. Long story short I limped it to another dealer who replaced the ECU under warranty and it's been running fine ever since; 1year and ~10k miles.

I didnt get a new ECU but yeah, it was not fun. I'm going to write an email to the GM of the dealership and see if I can get a free oil change at least. I did an unnecessary oil change due to wrong info given and I was without my car multiple times that could have been avoided. We shall see. :cheers:

Check Engine Light

Spartan_Stang

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timd38

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Spartan_Stang

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Chameleon

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robertwsimpson

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Chameleon

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MaxQ

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