Procharger Stage 2 Installed, Tuning Questions

Just logged some when I was doing some test to see what's going on with the knock. See attachment.

I don't know what program to use to make those fancy graphs, but here's one from excel for a graphical representation of the knock from 14.5k lines of recording



Did some googling and found someone with a tuning question at the HP tuner forum:

"Ok guys, I'm a little stumped here. My car sometimes gets positive Knock (2-4 degrees) between 2000-3000 rpm at .55- .85 load. The reason I'm stumped is because the spark advance the car is ending up with is always at or above what I'm commanding in the borderline tables and sometime at or above my mbt tables. It's almost always the same mapped points (7,8,20,21,25).

Does anybody have any ideas where I need to look? I was under the impression that the spark advance shouldn't go above the MBT tables but it does on many occasions."

Answer1: There are MBT modifiers tables right? I would have a look at all the tables to the right of the MBT tables.

In the Retard tab you also have a table for an Add limit and a Remove limit.

Original Poster: Well I feel stupid. My I decreased my IAT and ECT base tables for colder temps and it went away.

Maybe [MENTION=11041]ProChargerTECH[/MENTION] can help take a look at that?

whatsup62 said:

;)

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You were totally right man! Think the winter gas just sucks or?

cyandhappiness said:

Just logged some when I was doing some test to see what's going on with the knock. See attachment.

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It looks like you're only at wide open throttle in a few short spots in this log right? Your AFR is quite high during most RPM peaks which is why I suspect this. I've highlighted the area I believe to be you at WOT in my screenshot.

I'll let ProChargerTECH comment on this, but to me it looks similar to my problem which was solved by better fuel.

To me it's pretty simple....

If you have the correct colder spark plugs installed, and gapped correctly.
It seems your fuel quality is of question, or maybe you have an injector thats got debris in it.

14 degrees is a VERY low timing number to be running on your car.
There is no point in changing your tune, car its actually correct.
I could remove timing, but....

1) you would be the first to need that done.
2) your car will be a spud on power.


You need to find your issue... I would start with the following.

1) Fresh tank of fuel from another well known station. (and check your log)
2) Pull your plugs and make sure they are all looking nice and even.
3) Make sure you don't have a side to side issue from a clogged cat, or clogged injector.

Is there a gas station you guys always go to? Shell? QuikTrip?

I just got a new tank at Chevron the day after install and seems like problem still there.

cyandhappiness said:

Is there a gas station you guys always go to? Shell? QuikTrip?

I just got a new tank at Chevron the day after install and seems like problem still there.

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Sometimes we use BP, sometimes QT.
Just try and frequent large well known places.

ProChargerTECH said:

Sometimes we use BP, sometimes QT.
Just try and frequent large well known places.

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Thanks man, in the mean time the car is safe to drive? It won't explode?

Okay, so I gotta ask about my new Stage2. The gauge on the dash says my AFR is around 14 most of the time. Is this okay?

From what i learned from Adrian from Mak, 14.1 is regular for idle and normal driving (little to zero load), but at WOT it'll drop down to 11.1ish, but then it'll go all over the place as you are accelerating.

Bartly said:

Okay, so I gotta ask about my new Stage2. The gauge on the dash says my AFR is around 14 most of the time. Is this okay?

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Under what throttle condition? Cruising, WOT, or decel?

I agree with ProChargerTECH, your logs look a lot like mine did and it was fuel for me. If you can get your hands on a small tank of unleaded race gas you can use it as a known good fuel reference. If the car runs perfect on it then you know what the deal is if not its another issue. You should have much more aggressive timing and the power difference is staggering, I was losing traction through 4th gear at 22 degrees. I was sure my chevron was good because it was great when in had my s/c camaro, but clearly it sucked this week. Ultimately the test for octane is how it runs in an engine, thats how we get MON/RON ratings. Houston had a rash of scandals in the news wih stations selling 87 (M+R)/2 as 93 a few years ago. im sure it still happens, its got to be a tempting margin and I doubt Dallas is much less crooked than Houston. I know one gas station owner (Shell) and I'd never buy his gas, dude is crooked as hell.

As far as safety it wont just explode, but I personally wouldn't ignore the problem and race around hard if the car is havig to constantly pull timing. Burning off fuel by driving normally is perfectly fine though. Dont fill a whole tank when u burn it off. Get her on fumes and fill a 1/4 at a nice new station and test again, give her a few miles to clear old fuel. Or get race gas and try that.

[MENTION=11041]ProChargerTECH[/MENTION] any thoughts on my 4 degree timing question? Seems like some kind of weird magic number like a set limit.

[MENTION=19360]Bartly[/MENTION] if you are at 14 afr at Wide Open Throttle something is very wrong. Do you have a log? On light/part 14 is normal for fuel efficiency.

14 AFR is the when I'm at idle or just cruising around town leisurely. Thanks!

Bartly said:

14 AFR is the when I'm at idle or just cruising around town leisurely. Thanks!

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Cool sounds perfectly normal for cruising afrs. As long as its making good ignition timing and afr is around 11 to 11.5 in both banks at WOT ur good.

cyandhappiness said:

[MENTION=11041]ProChargerTECH[/MENTION] any thoughts on my 4 degree timing question? Seems like some kind of weird magic number like a set limit.

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It used to be a set hard limit max to pull.
That has since been increased to 10. (but my word, if you hit that you have massssssive issues LOL)

cyandhappiness said:

From what i learned from Adrian from Mak, 14.1 is regular for idle and normal driving (little to zero load), but at WOT it'll drop down to 11.1ish, but then it'll go all over the place as you are accelerating.

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The dash is a terrible measure of AFR's.
Its crazy slow compared to how fast the car reacts.

cyandhappiness said:

Thanks man, in the mean time the car is safe to drive? It won't explode?

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I wouldn't be beating on it with that kinda knock retard.
Again, normally here on good QT 91, our files will ADD at least 1 to 2 degees.

ProChargerTECH said:

It used to be a set hard limit max to pull.
That has since been increased to 10. (but my word, if you hit that you have massssssive issues LOL)

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Id have to change my pants if it started pulling 10 lol!

You sure its not fixed at 4 still? Just weird on this tune ive never logged anything beyond + or - 4. It doesnt seem to add or pull more than 4 ever.