Very Frustrated!!!!

scottmoyer said:

I got the 2017 from the same dealer because they had the car I wanted, the price was good and I had to return the 2016 to them. I had the 2016 for 3 weeks before returning it and they took the car back in as a trade, not reimbursement. The trade was done to reimburse me for most of the costs. I got exactly what I spent on that car, plus. When you put it all together, I had tax savings by trading the car in at full value, rather than just getting my money back and going elsewhere. So, I only had to pay the taxes on the difference of the two cars , versus paying the tax on the full price of a new one. That was a savings of about $2k.

Like I said, the dealer was working with me to resolve the issue of the first car. And they worked with me to get the second car. The only issues I had, were the laws stating that all car purchasers are required to pay a dealer fee, if there is one. I had to pay the dealer fee, the title transfer fee, tire disposal fee, etc. These fees could not be waived.

Yes, you can feel the edges of these water spots. You can lightly feel it before the wetsanding and you can lightly feel it after. So the clear has been etched pretty deep. I opened a case with Ford immediately and was told that once the car is delivered to the dealer, they aren't responsible for paint issues unless they are manufacturing defects. There must be something wrong with the paint on this car to allow the etching to have happened as quickly and as deeply as it did. I plan on calling them back tomorrow and see what Ford will do. My detailer is wondering if this could be a chemical fallout that occurred before the car shipped.

Click to expand...

It's not etching. It's a paint defect under the clear coat. Your dealer should work with you and should get Ford to pay for whatever is required to make it right.

scottmoyer said:

I opened a case with Ford immediately and was told that once the car is delivered to the dealer, they aren't responsible for paint issues unless they are manufacturing defects.

Click to expand...

I'd say that's exactly what you're seeing - now of course, the dealer is supposed to handle this when they take the car into inventory, so I'd say if it was a case of receiving the car like that, they're as much to blame as anyone.

BmacIL said:

It's not etching. It's a paint defect under the clear coat. Your dealer should work with you and should get Ford to pay for whatever is required to make it right.

Click to expand...

Yeah, if it's as widespread as he suggested, I'd say, Ford needs to make good on this _with_ the dealer, and probably take that vehicle back, and seriously give him a kickass deal to comp him for the WEEKS of hassle!

I don't think I'd accept a nearly complete paint job, which sounds like the only option.

The issue with a repaint is the devaluing of a vehicle. If there are two cars, identical in every feature and mileage, sitting on a used car lot, which car would you buy? The one that's got it's factory paint, or the one that's been repainted? To entice someone to buy that car, the price is usually lowered. In the insurance industry, this is called diminished value, and can be substantial in value. Needless to say, I do not want the car repainted, unless Ford/dealer compensates me for it.

I know stuff like this is frustrating. Where that is on your car, worst case scenario thats a very simply fix for any decent shop. It would take very little color to do a patch and reclear the panel. I realize thats probably not what you want but at the end of the day the only one that would ever know would be you. Brake fluid can etch clear coat without causing it to completely lift. Thats just a guess. It doesn't mean there is a problem with the paint just that something caustic was on it. I had a shop for almost 18 years and did lots of paint repairs on mostly higher end cars where the customers didn't want the franchise dealers shop touching there car. Almost every case was caused during transport where a car above leaked something on the car below. Best of luck.

scottmoyer said:

I got the 2017 from the same dealer because they had the car I wanted, the price was good and I had to return the 2016 to them. I had the 2016 for 3 weeks before returning it and they took the car back in as a trade, not reimbursement. The trade was done to reimburse me for most of the costs. I got exactly what I spent on that car, plus. When you put it all together, I had tax savings by trading the car in at full value, rather than just getting my money back and going elsewhere. So, I only had to pay the taxes on the difference of the two cars , versus paying the tax on the full price of a new one. That was a savings of about $2k.

Like I said, the dealer was working with me to resolve the issue of the first car. And they worked with me to get the second car. The only issues I had, were the laws stating that all car purchasers are required to pay a dealer fee, if there is one. I had to pay the dealer fee, the title transfer fee, tire disposal fee, etc. These fees could not be waived.

Yes, you can feel the edges of these water spots. You can lightly feel it before the wetsanding and you can lightly feel it after. So the clear has been etched pretty deep. I opened a case with Ford immediately and was told that once the car is delivered to the dealer, they aren't responsible for paint issues unless they are manufacturing defects. There must be something wrong with the paint on this car to allow the etching to have happened as quickly and as deeply as it did. I plan on calling them back tomorrow and see what Ford will do. My detailer is wondering if this could be a chemical fallout that occurred before the car shipped.

Click to expand...

I believe this is not below the clear, but has damaged the clear. These marks are all over the car where water would puddle after a rain and allowed to dry. The rear trunk panel has water spots all over it that will require a plastic polish to smooth out. The sides of the car look like it was hit with a sprinkler and allowed to dry. The entire car is getting wetsanded and the only areas that have cleaned up are the sides of the car. So, this would not be a single panel repaint. These issues are on the hood, roof, roof rails, trunk, spoiler, tops of the rear quarters, front bumper cover and rear bumper cover.

I forgot to mention that I spent hours, with CLR, on the front grill removing calcium water deposits. I truly believe this started at the dealership, by having a wash team just hose off the cars and not drying them, and allowing the hot Florida sun to dry the car. Now, Being that the car was purchased near Tampa, salt water air could come into play with daily afternoon thunderstorms. The salty rain water then dries under the sun's heat, leaving water marks. Then that is an issue with the factory paint not being able to withstand natural elements.

I'll let you guys know what I can get out of this whole ordeal. My detailer is finishing up the polishing of the sanding scratches today

Those are valid points. Not sure what your laws are in your state but here and most surrounding paint work, or even lot damage does not have to be disclosed if the car hasnt been titled yet. Basically sittn as new inventory. Its not unusual to see new cars sittn in the dealer shop waitn on a repair.

scottmoyer said:

The issue with a repaint is the devaluing of a vehicle. If there are two cars, identical in every feature and mileage, sitting on a used car lot, which car would you buy? The one that's got it's factory paint, or the one that's been repainted? To entice someone to buy that car, the price is usually lowered. In the insurance industry, this is called diminished value, and can be substantial in value. Needless to say, I do not want the car repainted, unless Ford/dealer compensates me for it.

Click to expand...

scottmoyer said:

I'd like to take it back, but then that's the 2nd car I've taken back to this dealer. My trade in was already sold at auction, so I can't get that back. And the dealer is in Brandon, so it's almost 2 hours away. I originaly bought from them because of the price of the 2016 GT. They seem to have crazy prices on cars that nobody else can touch. So I bought the first car there, and in their defense, the paint work was done very well and they bought it at auction, so a clean carfax and 5k miles, they thought they had a winner. I'll see what I can get from them on this as "I'm Frustrated!!"

Click to expand...

You get what you pay for.

You had every opportunity to inspect this and settle it with the dealer on the spot. Never take delivery unless you are completely satisfied, or at least make sure that any to be repaired defects are noted in the purchase agreenent.

Why were you rushing on such a giant purchase?
You are spending tens of thousands of dollars.

I hope you reach a satisfactory resolution, but this could easily have been prevented, and the dealership actually has grounds to tell you you are out of luck.

In the future use Autocheck. They have access to Auction records. I have discovered many cars have accidents/damage in autocheck that Carfax reported as clean.

Jdenkevitz said:

You get what you pay for.

You had every opportunity to inspect this and settle it with the dealer on the spot. Never take delivery unless you are completely satisfied, or at least make sure that any to be repaired defects are noted in the purchase agreenent.

Why were you rushing on such a giant purchase?
You are spending tens of thousands of dollars.

I hope you reach a satisfactory resolution, but this could easily have been prevented, and the dealership actually has grounds to tell you you are out of luck.

In the future use Autocheck. They have access to Auction records. I have discovered many cars have accidents/damage in autocheck that Carfax reported as clean.

Click to expand...

Nice Monday morning quarterbacking here!

I did examine the car and the only thing it had on it was water spots. Have you ever seen water spots that you couldn't get off? I haven't! The 2017 car was brand new, so I was looking for any signs of paintwork, blatant and hidden! There was nothing to document on the repair order, so I signed off that it was good, since it only had water spots on it.

I wasn't rushing to make a purchase. If you read what I posted, I was two hours away from the dealer I bought the 2016 car at. So, I had to drive 2 hours there to return the car, work the details on the replacement and then drive 2 hours home. It had been a long day and at a dealership that sells as many cars as they do, they were busy and we spent more time just sitting than I wanted to.

So you're saying that unless you pay MSRP, you should expect damaged goods? You get what you pay for. What does that mean when buying a new car? So, this dealership seems to offer similar deals to what Koon's Sterling does in VA, but they are in FL. So, all dealers that have a way of selling a car for less than the MSRP and rebates, is selling crap? I disagree. I went to that dealership because they had promotional pricing that was better than my local dealership.

And, Autocheck probably wouldn't have found the repairs on the 2016, because it appears that it went to auction soon after repairs. It's possible that I bought that car within 30 days of the repairs. The dealer I bought it from easily missed the repair work also until I showed them it was done. The repairs were done very well.

scottmoyer said:

Nice Monday morning quarterbacking here!

Click to expand...

Its Sunday actually.

I did examine the car and the only thing it had on it was water spots. Have you ever seen water spots that you couldn't get off? I haven't!

Click to expand...

You made that assumption. I was anal about my car and went over issues before accepting it. It had a few scratches and I insisted they be fixed on the spot or they include a repair order in the purchase agreement. You should consider doing that in the future.

There was nothing to document on the repair order, so I signed off that it was good, since it only had water spots on it.
I wasn't rushing to make a purchase. If you read what I posted, I was two hours away from the dealer I bought the 2016 car at. So, I had to drive 2 hours there to return the car, work the details on the replacement and then drive 2 hours home. It had been a long day and at a dealership that sells as many cars as they do, they were busy and we spent more time just sitting than I wanted to.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you didn't want to be hassled with coming back. I understand, nonetheless .... rushing.

So you're saying that unless you pay MSRP, you should expect damaged goods?

Click to expand...

No.

You get what you pay for. What does that mean when buying a new car? So, this dealership seems to offer similar deals to what Koon's Sterling does in VA, but they are in FL. So, all dealers that have a way of selling a car for less than the MSRP and rebates, is selling crap? I disagree. I went to that dealership because they had promotional pricing that was better than my local dealership.

Click to expand...

I bought from Koons in Baltimore. They were totally fine going over the vehicle and including any issues in the purchase agreements as "We Owe You's".

My hesitation is that you had already bought a car from that dealer that had unrevealed issues and damage.

And, Autocheck probably wouldn't have found the repairs on the 2016, because it appears that it went to auction soon after repairs.

Click to expand...

Thats exactly the information that gets included in many cases. I walked away from a BMW recently that had sub frame damage that only showed up in the Autocheck as a detail in the Auction entry, while Carfax never reported any such issues.

Jdenkevitz said:

... In the future use Autocheck. They have access to Auction records. I have discovered many cars have accidents/damage in autocheck that Carfax reported as clean.

Click to expand...

I assumed these were interchangeable, but when I was shopping used cars I was using Autocheck because they allowed unlimited vin lookups. Sometimes there was free carfax available and I probably didn't bother to autocheck those.

scottmoyer said:

I believe this is not below the clear, but has damaged the clear. These marks are all over the car where water would puddle after a rain and allowed to dry.

Click to expand...

I would be tempted to make the drive back to the dealership and look at other cars in the new car lot to see if they have the same type of water spots. Maybe there is a nearby factory that is smoke stacking something unpleasant.

Find a non conspicuous area w water spots.
Mix hydrogen peroxide and distilled white vinegar 50/50 in a clean empty plastic yogurt tub big enough to dip clean sponge into.
Gently sponge over the area keeping it moist.

Any ceramic (metal oxide) or intermetallic minerals like calcium, magnesium etc will be dissolved. Rinse plenty water for 5 min and dont let dry on paint v

Keep in mind, if water marks are mineral(ceramic) and are harder than polymer paint, sanding may remove paint to the sides of the mark. Kind of like a sand blasting mask.

scottmoyer said:

I forgot to answer the question about carfax. Yes, the car was originally sold in Florida, registered in Florida, and then resold in Florida. It can take up to a year for Carfax to report an accident, if it gets reported at all. If they just finished the repairs, and got rid of the car to the auction, then a clean carfax is expected as they haven't processed it yet. I don't trust carfax.

Click to expand...

Carfax sucks, use Autocheck by Experian.

Got the car back from the detailer. He did an amazing job, but the edges of the damage are still visible in many places. Now that the car is as smooth as it is, I can see that the edges are actually valleys in the paint. You can feel the edges, but it's much easier to feel them now that they are actually lower than the surface and the contaminants have been removed.

jdenkevitz, You're assuming that I didn't check the car over. Not sure how many times I have to say that it WAS checked over very closely and the only thing I could find was the water spots on a dirty car. That's it. The interior was checked for scratches on the plastics, marks on the seats (front and rear), the carpet was checked for stains and and or tears, etc. I fully examined this car. Again, I have never crossed water spots that etched paint, so to me, it could have been detailed out.

So, because I haven't seen water etch paint like this, I did a quick search of the dealer on Google Maps. My car was not parked at the dealership, but at an overflow lot down the road. The area was industrial and I found the business next door to the parking lot is called Gulf Coast Chemical. I may have to go back again and see if other cars have the same issue. If my car was parked at the dealership for any of it's time, which I'm sure it was, there is a body shop next door to their front lot. Now I know where the white specs of paint that I saw all over other cars came from. I saw this on a few cars on their lot and I was able to pop the spec off with a finger nail, so I figured, no big deal on that one. But, all paint booths have a vent system, so I wonder if something from the body shop went air born due to dirty filters, or no filters on the booth. Hmmm.

car fax sucks because issues only show up if reported to them... If no claims are made, no history in Carfax.

scottmoyer said:

... So, because I haven't seen water etch paint like this, I did a quick search of the dealer on Google Maps. My car was not parked at the dealership, but at an overflow lot down the road. The area was industrial and I found the business next door to the parking lot is called Gulf Coast Chemical. I may have to go back again and see if other cars have the same issue.

Click to expand...

someone once told me that they worked at a semiconductor facility that had a release that damaged some of the paint on some of the cars in the parking lot. Don't know if that was for real, but it seemed plausible.

in this case, it could be that that there was something similar while it was misting or drizzling and that concentrated and collected on the car rather than diluting out with the wind current.

It may not help to go look at other new cars if that was a one time occurrence.